Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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and yes Zak Gramarye is a Bald Jerk
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
I feel a little bad. I mean, I worked so hard on that reply of mine, but everyone ignored it.>_>
Well if your gonna WHINE about it.
It's Nick's fault for not asking Trucy to speak up about the page.
Zak had no idea the evidence had been forged since I don't think the court even got to look at it before Klavier stopped the trial.
There's nothing wrong with having a backup plan, can't hate a man for being prepared for every eventuality.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye desu a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
justice is always wright ;)
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having said that,my argument is that zak had no intention of harming anyone but himself and kristof gavin(maybe not even kristof gavin and just himself),here's his actions
first of he had refused kristof gavin not becouse he lost in pocker,but becouse the game showed him what type of a person kristof gavin was,an evil person who would seek fame for succesfully defending a gramerye(sp?) and would use forged evidence to do it,and for his deciding that phoenix wright should be the one to defend him wasn't simply becouse phoenix wright defeated him,but it was becouse he saw wright for the type of person he was,an attorney that seek's justice and trusts his clients.
next off,there's how he wanted to escape wether he would have been named guilty or not guilty,the reason wasn't to escape or becouse he lacked faith in his client,it was becouse he wanted poeple to think that his partner valant was innocent,you see,if zak was to be found innocent then everyone would automatically think that it was valant who did the murder,so he escaped to make sure everyone thought he was the killer to clear valant's name.
and if he gave phoenix wright the real page,phoenix wright would have won the trial and zak would have been given the virdict innocent before his escape and his plan to protect valant would have been crumbled to dust,he had absolutly no idea that the evidence trucy gave wright was forged evidence,he had no intention of making wright lose his badge,that was kristof's fault.
almost seven years later he was about to be pronounced, "dead", "vanished" or whatever i don't really remember,however he risked his own safty to give the rights to his doughter and not only that,but he also,the moment he heard that poeple thought zak was protecting valant and making everyone think that zak was the killer,zak was shocked that his plan to protect valant's name from murder was foiled,but do you know how he reacted to that....
he wrote a false confession,he ruined his name "zak gramery(sp?)" with murder inorder to clear valant's name of all charges,even when he thought that it was valant that did the deed.
ergo,zak was sacrificing his own well being to protect valant and make sure that his doughter trucy receave's the rights.
as for trying to cheat against phoenix wright,that was a bit of selfishness i must admit,he valued his skill's as a pocker player,and his attack to olga orly wasn't with any intention or murder,he had simply wanted to defeat phoenix wright at pocker by any means neccesary.
thus the only bad intentioned action he did was cheating against phoenix wright,but it can't be compared with kristof's actions(we know how evil he is),and not even with valant's actions of framing zak.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
That was really uncalled for. Don't bother posting if you're going to be rude.
Well lookit that, now your ignoring my counterarguments I put so much effort into.....
I wasn't trying to be rude but it DID sound rather whiny as you might be able to see from this ^
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Justice, I'm having trouble reading your post. But you can't really deny that Zak is a jerk, considering everything he's done. His reasons or it being unintentional don't really completely cover him. Like, the trap he set for Phoenix. His actions had already caused the man to lose his badge, as well as trashed his reputation. Now he wanted to cost him his new reputation, his job, and his only means of caring for Trucy? No matter what the reason, that's not good. He also thought a little too much about himself and not about the consequences of his actions or how they might affect other people.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
You're still being rude. Don't expect people to respond to you when you are acting that way. There was no whining going on, so stop it.-.-
Justice, I'm having trouble reading your post. But you can't really deny that Zak is a jerk, considering everything he's done. His reasons or it being unintentional don't really completely cover him. Like, the trap he set for Phoenix. His actions had already caused the man to lose his badge, as well as trashed his reputation. Now he wanted to cost him his new reputation, his job, and his only means of caring for Trucy? No matter what the reason, that's not good. He also thought a little too much about himself and not about the consequences of his actions or how they might affect other people.
Justice, I'm having trouble reading your post. But you can't really deny that Zak is a jerk, considering everything he's done. His reasons or it being unintentional don't really completely cover him. Like, the trap he set for Phoenix. His actions had already caused the man to lose his badge, as well as trashed his reputation. Now he wanted to cost him his new reputation, his job, and his only means of caring for Trucy? No matter what the reason, that's not good. He also thought a little too much about himself and not about the consequences of his actions or how they might affect other people.
Hey don't change the subject you've still to answer my rebuttals!
And in my perception it was whining, it was like 'boohoo nobody is paying attention to my post' now I've responded and your not doing anything about it!
C'mon man answer ME.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
justice is always wright ;)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
Justice, I'm having trouble reading your post. But you can't really deny that Zak is a jerk, considering everything he's done. His reasons or it being unintentional don't really completely cover him. Like, the trap he set for Phoenix. His actions had already caused the man to lose his badge, as well as trashed his reputation. Now he wanted to cost him his new reputation, his job, and his only means of caring for Trucy? No matter what the reason, that's not good. He also thought a little too much about himself and not about the consequences of his actions or how they might affect other people.
zak is thoughtfull of the consequences of his action,when he realized that his escape put suspision in valant's name,he corrected his mistake with a false confession.
he didn't mean to cost phoenix his badge,he might have not been carefull but that doesn't make him a jerk.
as for phoenix's job as poker player(pianist),that was just a bit of bitter rivilary between them in poker.
zak's actions may couse everyone around him trouble,but that make's him a larry butz that look's like a jerk
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
If Zak did everything fully realizing the consequences of his actions, that would still make him a jerk. Sacrificing everyone else for himself is not good. He had to have at least realized his plans would cause trouble.
Sure maybe it was selfish but he did what he had to do. The court had already decided he was guilty what harm would there be in making himself seem MORE guilty? His plans couldn't have made anything really worse and they allowed him to escape a false judgement.
Phoenix had already presented forged evidence he would already have lost his badge whether or not Zak's escape plan had went ahead Zak is not to blame.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
No, he didn't.-.-
I keep reviewing my post....but there's nowhere I can find where that response makes sense...
Unless you meant: Sure maybe it was selfish but he did what he had to do.
Then: No he didn't!
Even then I think a little more clarification is in order.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
You just want attention, that's why you keep trying to force yourself into the conversation. Aside from accusing me of whining, you were extremely rude to me. And then, you yourself started whining because no one was answering your comments. The reason for this being, no one wants anything to do with people that can't be civil. Don't expect me to debate with you or have a conversation with you if you can't treat me with respect.
Geez I didn't realise CR folks feelings were so vulnerable.
I started whining for irony :P get it? To show you what it seemed to me like.
Now come on your not even defending your own points anymore you can either cry about it or prove me wrong and answer my queries.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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he planned to have a fair attorney and not a forging attorney but that backfired and had the fair attorney lose his badge due to the forging attorney's selfishness and evilness.
he planned to escape to make sure no one thinks his partner and friend is the criminal,although he himself thought his partner was the criminal,but his plan backfired and everyone figured out that he was protecting his partner.
he then later gave a false confestion to murder,even though he still thought it was valant that killed magnifi,now compare this, zak's actions of trying to clear valants name and have a fair trial without hurting his attorney to valant's plan of originaly wanting to kill magnifi and then later frame zak for murder for his own well being.
zak's only selfish act was the poker cheating act,that's it,if that make's him a jerk then what does valant's action make him
btw,TheSteelSamurai,Pierre said he had no intentions of being rude,yes he SOUNDED rude but i hate false impressions that make's poeple give false judgment about other poeple,but you are right,you weren't whining but Pierre realized his mistake and admited that it was becouse it SOUNDED like you were whining although you weren't which led him to his false accusation,he now stopped calling you a whinner for realizing his mistake so please stop calling him rude and counter his argument
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
Forget it. This used to be a good thread, but now trolls have taken it over, apparently.-.- Justice, he is still acting rude, and it did not even seem like I was whining, because I wasn't. He just wanted to be a jerk, which you are helping him do by defending him. You both need to stop it with the personal attacks.
Geez man I'm not even doing anything! I'm not wanting to take this further than it has to go. Justice has done nothing to you so don't go accusing him. I'm far from a troll go to people like Proxy for that. I just viewed this as more of a fan-thread than a hate-thread that you tried to make it. I just wanted to know (and hopefully refute) your reasons for hating Zak so.
Though if you want to let things lie this way fine.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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And this is not a fan-thread. Read the title. It's called "Zak Gramarye is a JERK". Peopl have been discussing the cruelty of his actions for quite some time. And even as a fan-thread, that still allows for discussion.
I never expressed full hatred for Zak. I have defended both points of view, pointing out how his actions were wrong, but also how some of them might be justified.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
You both need to stop it with the personal attacks.
he already stopped the personal attack...........................wait........................when did i give you a personal attack?
.............................................is accusing you of being wrong,considered a personal attack?
edit: you gave detailed posts,he countered with detailed posts and now it's your turn..................i think
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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i defended him becouse it wasn't his intention of being rude,and when he relized his mistake he stopped the unnintentional insults.
and i only accused you of false judgment of pierre,or is that accusation considered rude
edit: my fast typing make's my posts..............even less english
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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I replied INCLUDING rebuttals for your points. Yes maybe I said it seemed whiny but I answered your post, that was the main point of the post not to insult you.
You seem to have ignored these points though assuming I merely insulted you and afterwards assumed I was trying to force into the conversation when really I was just trying to direct your attention to my previous arguments.
If you are going to keep going on about how I'm 'personally attacking' you then don't expect me to care or reply unless you get your act together.
And don't worry about it Justice, I appreciate your help but you don't need to get involved. Your English skills are way better than my Arabic skills after all
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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I only stated that my post had been ignored, which it had been-for quite some time. Then Pierre comes in to insult me, which was uncalled for. No one wants to talk with someone who insults them. He is the one who needs to get his act together.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
justice is always wright ;)
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and TheSteelSamurai,if you are in a bad mood then take some rest and chill up before posting,it happens to all of us and once when i posted while i was at a bad mode i was later greatly infamous(in another forum),so my advice is "don't post while you are in a bad mode".......................................................i hope my friendly advice isn't going to be considered a personal attack
back on topic.................how is zak a jerk if his only selfish intention was the poker cheating and the rest of his intentions were good ones?,that is the million dollar question
edit:started writing this before steelsamurai's post,i will edit again to reply his post
edit2: he stopped insulting you about 15 posts ago,he only did it twice,first when he falsly accused you of whinning,second when he said 'boohoo,no one's replying to my post' or something...................that's it,from there he stopped insulting you..................................................................ooops,i forgot to stay out of this fight
Last edited by Phoenix_Justice on Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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And TheSteelSamurai, don't even bother trying to put in a last word.
Pierre, ignore TheSteelSamurai, it's not worth the breath.
EDIT:
PS. This post is not meant as an insult. It is meant as an order. Happy?
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Zak hit a woman in the head with a bottle and knocked her unconscious. That makes him a jerk.
I dare you to refute!
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Croik wrote:
Let's be on topic.
Zak hit a woman in the head with a bottle and knocked her unconscious. That makes him a jerk.
I dare you to refute!
Zak hit a woman in the head with a bottle and knocked her unconscious. That makes him a jerk.
I dare you to refute!
She was Russian.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Bad Player wrote:
Croik wrote:
Let's be on topic.
Zak hit a woman in the head with a bottle and knocked her unconscious. That makes him a jerk.
I dare you to refute!
Zak hit a woman in the head with a bottle and knocked her unconscious. That makes him a jerk.
I dare you to refute!
She was Russian.
Or was she?
And she'd failed to do a job she'd been paid to do that....justifies....physical....abuse?
Wait...I'm gonna need to think of a way around that one...
Well Olga was a bit of a Jerk anyway.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Wooster wrote:
Lets stop the bickering okay? I got a nice new ban hammer for Christmas and I haven't tried it out yet.
And TheSteelSamurai, don't even bother trying to put in a last word.
Pierre, ignore TheSteelSamurai, it's not worth the breath.
EDIT:
PS. This post is not meant as an insult. It is meant as an order. Happy?
And TheSteelSamurai, don't even bother trying to put in a last word.
Pierre, ignore TheSteelSamurai, it's not worth the breath.
EDIT:
PS. This post is not meant as an insult. It is meant as an order. Happy?
Sounds like one to me. Just my two cents. TheSteelSamurai wasn't only one at fault, and I personally don't think she deserved it.
On to the topic at hand.
I REFUTE, CROIK. ZAK IS NOT A JERK BECAUSE HE HIT HER WITH A BOTTLE. HE IS A JERK FOR LEAVING HIS DAUGHTER. CASE CLOSEDDDDD. I WINNNN. :D
ALSO VALANT IS BETTER. :DDDD
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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the goal of valant's actions were to frame zak to earn the rights to himself even though he knows that zak didn't do it.
if zak's actions make him a jerk,then what do valant's actions make him,I mean zak was willing to take blame,and although he wanted to make wright look like a cheater,that can't be compared with valant's act of framing zak for murder.
any questions
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Phoenix_Justice wrote:
if zak's actions make him a jerk,then what do valant's actions make him,I mean zak was willing to take blame,and although he wanted to make wright look like a cheater,that can't be compared with valant's act of framing zak for murder.
any questions
any questions
Valant is also a jerk but as long as he's not beating women unconscious with bottles he's the lesser of two jerks in my opinion.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Croik wrote:
Phoenix_Justice wrote:
if zak's actions make him a jerk,then what do valant's actions make him,I mean zak was willing to take blame,and although he wanted to make wright look like a cheater,that can't be compared with valant's act of framing zak for murder.
any questions
any questions
Valant is also a jerk but as long as he's not beating women unconscious with bottles he's the lesser of two jerks in my opinion.
Valant may also be a jerk but... he was supposed to be The Woobie...! At least in my opinion.
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.Storm Parakaitz wrote:
Croik wrote:
Phoenix_Justice wrote:
if zak's actions make him a jerk,then what do valant's actions make him,I mean zak was willing to take blame,and although he wanted to make wright look like a cheater,that can't be compared with valant's act of framing zak for murder.
any questions
any questions
Valant is also a jerk but as long as he's not beating women unconscious with bottles he's the lesser of two jerks in my opinion.
Valant may also be a jerk but... he was supposed to be The Woobie...! At least in my opinion.
Oh I agree, I think you're definitely meant to sympathize with Valant more than Zak (and I do!). He acted in a moment of betrayal and hurt, and paid for it for years. Zak didn't deserve to be set up for murder of course, but he did some things later that were truly jerk.
It's like Zak started out as the guy that seemed okay at first but then you realize he's a jerk, and Valant started out as a jerk who you felt sorry for by the end. And that last impression is the one that persists.
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Croik wrote:
Oh I agree, I think you're definitely meant to sympathize with Valant more than Zak (and I do!). He acted in a moment of betrayal and hurt, and paid for it for years. Zak didn't deserve to be set up for murder of course, but he did some things later that were truly jerk.
It's like Zak started out as the guy that seemed okay at first but then you realize he's a jerk, and Valant started out as a jerk who you felt sorry for by the end. And that last impression is the one that persists.
It's like Zak started out as the guy that seemed okay at first but then you realize he's a jerk, and Valant started out as a jerk who you felt sorry for by the end. And that last impression is the one that persists.
but i hate impressions that lead to false judgement
zak was confesing to a crime he thought his partner commited to clear his partner's name and he came out from the hiding to give trucy the rights,does hitting a lady unconncies cancel all that(especially the false confession) and make him a jerk
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Croik wrote:
.Storm Parakaitz wrote:
Croik wrote:
Valant is also a jerk but as long as he's not beating women unconscious with bottles he's the lesser of two jerks in my opinion.
Valant may also be a jerk but... he was supposed to be The Woobie...! At least in my opinion.
Oh I agree, I think you're definitely meant to sympathize with Valant more than Zak (and I do!). He acted in a moment of betrayal and hurt, and paid for it for years. Zak didn't deserve to be set up for murder of course, but he did some things later that were truly jerk.
It's like Zak started out as the guy that seemed okay at first but then you realize he's a jerk, and Valant started out as a jerk who you felt sorry for by the end. And that last impression is the one that persists.
Agreed. It actually reminds me of a rule my dad once said to me: "I've never met a pair of brothers where one wasn't a fucking asshole and the other was as nice as can be." While Zak and Valant aren't technically brothers, they act enough like it [Trucy does call Valant her uncle] and this rule still applies. I'm surprised I don't hear more people noticing this rule, actually, unless it's one of those things left unspoken because everyone knows that. In which case, I missed the memo.
And I don't think we were meant to sympathize with Zak at all. XD I do anyway because I'm a twisted weirdo like that. But I still feel really, really bad for Valant. And I never thought of him as a jerk really, but then again, the vain people are the ones I really like for some reason.
Oh, and the part about the confession that Phoenix gives to Valant? That part almost made me cry.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Posts: 623
Phoenix_Justice wrote:
Croik wrote:
Oh I agree, I think you're definitely meant to sympathize with Valant more than Zak (and I do!). He acted in a moment of betrayal and hurt, and paid for it for years. Zak didn't deserve to be set up for murder of course, but he did some things later that were truly jerk.
It's like Zak started out as the guy that seemed okay at first but then you realize he's a jerk, and Valant started out as a jerk who you felt sorry for by the end. And that last impression is the one that persists.
It's like Zak started out as the guy that seemed okay at first but then you realize he's a jerk, and Valant started out as a jerk who you felt sorry for by the end. And that last impression is the one that persists.
but i hate impressions that lead to false judgement
zak was confesing to a crime he thought his partner commited to clear his partner's name and he came out from the hiding to give trucy the rights,does hitting a lady unconncies cancel all that(especially the false confession) and make him a jerk
Is it alright to brain somebody with a glass bottle just because your plan was unsuccessful?
That aside, while Zak and Valant are jerks, I blame Magnifi for making them jerks. It was Magnifi who blackmailed them. It was Magnifi who blamed Zak and Valant for Thalassa's death, even though it was MAGNIFI who shipped Thallasa overseas. It was Magnifi who asked Zak and Valant to "come to my room and shoot a bullet in the forehead." If Magnifi wanted to give Zak the rights all along why did he ask Valant to come also. If anything, he could've asked Valant to come the next day if Zak failed. Magnifi is the Jerk behind the Jerks. I felt way more sorry for Zak, Thalassa AND Valant than Magnifi, who I didn't feel sorry for at all.
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