When did Dahlia and Mia first meet?

In case five, it's stated that Mr. Hawthorne left Kurain because of Misty becoming master, which is stated to have happened three years before DL-6. However, it is implied that he didn't actually leave until the clan's reputation was trashed because of DL-6. When DL-6 happened, Mia was about 12, Dahlia and Iris were about 8, and Maya was about 2. They might have been a year older by the time Misty channeled Gregory and Grossberg and White leaked it. This basically requires that Mia, Dahlia, and Iris knew each other. I mean, Maya knew Pearl years later, and it's the same relationship.

When Mia dealt with Dahlia in court when she defended Fawles, there was no indication that she recognized Dahlia. Okay. Just because she knew eight or nine year old Dahlia doesn't mean she would recognize nineteen year old Dahlia. Maybe there are lots of girls with braided hair and flower names. Mia might not have known the connection between Dusky Bridge and her clan. However, Dahlia, during that trial, would have not only recognized the name "Fey," but would also have known exactly who Mia was!

There's more. Mia would have been 18 when 14-year-old Dahlia was "murdered" by Terry Fawles. We don't know what Mia was doing at that time, but suppose she was being home-schooled by a foster family in Kurain prior to leaving for college around August of that year. If Dahlia went missing around February, that would mean Mia was in Kurain at the time. That implies that that ***** Morgan didn't even mention it! "Hey Mia, sorry to bother you, but remember my daughter Dahlia who left the village five or six years ago? She was kidnapped and went missing. They say some creepy tutor named Terry Fawles killed her." Apparently the death of her daughter wasn't important news to share, even though Pearl wasn't born yet.

Yeah I thought about some of those problems too. It seemed really strange that Dahlia didn't get the connection of Mia's surname (or recognize her at all). Like when Bikini (in T&T) doesn't realize who Maya is or Pearl even though they're both spirit mediums with the surname Fey! just crazy

But how I figure it is that Morgan and Misty never got along so I can't imagine they spent a great deal of time together or encouraged their children to hang out. Kurain is a village so I guess they must have seen each other but not often, so not close contact? Also when Misty became master I imagine Morgan cut off all ties with her and forbade mention/contact with the Fey household. Then when Misty was made out as a fraud Morgan's husband left as did Misty, Morgan then took over leadership of the village and since her daughters had by that time been taken away from her she just simply didn't refer to them to Mia (if she ever spoke to her that is). Morgan could also have taken some time away from the village looking for a man to have her next child with

but yeah lots of plot holes.

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Um, I thought Dahlia did recognise Mia?

Wasn't there a point in Case 3-4 when Dahlia first came onto the witness stand and she was staring at Mia for a bit, causing Mia to wonder why she was doing that?

EDIT: Just checked the script.

Mia:
(Uh oh... I don't like the
turn this has taken...)

Melissa:
...

Mia:
...?
(Is she... staring at me?)

Melissa:
Umm...
And you would be...?

Mia:
Huh?
I-I'm the defense lawyer.
...My name is Mia Fey.

Melissa:
...

Melissa:
...I see.
So you are...

Since Morgan and Pearl are of a branch family and still have the surname Fey, it might be safe to assume there are more branch families with the same surname. If you think of it that way, it's not so strange that Bikini couldn't keep up with them all.

On the other hand, with Misty being the master, I'm not sure why Bikini wouldn't have known Maya... then again, she probably didn't make the connection.

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There's nothing that directly contradicts the idea that Dahlia recognized the name Fey when she went up against Mia in court. To resolve the "Dahlia didn't know who was channeling her" contradiction, it's only necessary that Dahlia didn't know what color Pearl's hair was. This makes sense given that Dahlia was either faking her death, under suspicion, in prison, or dead during Pearl's entire life. Plus, Morgan probably didn't obsess over Dahlia and Iris the way she obsessed over Pearl, so I doubt Morgan would've gone out of her way to contact her spiritually weak murderer of a daughter until she needed her.

@Kyarorain
Good observation! Even when I replayed 3-4 after having beaten 3-5, I somehow missed the hints that Dahlia attached significance to Mia's name.



My guess when I replayed 3-5 was that, due to the clan rivalries, the village master likes to keep it a secret which girls are her daughters to prevent the type of regicide Morgan attempted. It would be dangerous to go spilling the beans on which girls are high on the line of succession, which is probably why Bikini didn't know about Pearl. Though, it doesn't help much for Misty to keep her daughter's name a secret when the people with the strongest motive to kill the main family, namely the first-in-line branch family, are the ones who are close enough to know the secret.



Morgan did let and become close.

Morgan being outside Kurain when Dahlia was "kidnapped," perhaps looking for a husband after Mr. Hawthorne left her, could explain why Morgan never announced Dahlia's "kidnapping and death at the hands of Terry Fawles" to Mia.

Sorry for the double post, but I found a video that is fitting (and very disturbing). The part that is relevant to what I'm talking about starts around 2:46.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BckQAM1UF94

Even though the video shows Dahlia as the psychotic murdering wretch that she is (and maybe even exaggerates the degree to which she was happy about killing Valerie), it's almost sympathetic starting at 2:46. Her anger at her father for leaving her mother was based both on her mother being treated like crap and on she herself being cut off from everyone she knew in Kurain. And while it's hardly Mia's fault that she's defending Fawles against being framed by a treacherous witch that Mia didn't know was her cousin, Dahlia feels betrayed that the girl she grew up with is suddenly her enemy who is going way out of her way to send her to the gallows.

Off-topic, but if you want something to help you feel better after watching that depressing vid, here's one with Pearly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJuxWWiV ... re=related



EDIT: I don't want to triple-post, but I just realized something. In the Fawles trial, Mia, Miles, and Dahlia were all in the courtroom together - and all three of them lost a parent when DL-6 happened. I bet 13-year-old Maya was up in the gallery watching her big sis' first trial, so that's four out of five (all but Iris) of the people who lost a parent when DL-6 happened in the room together. Heck, assuming she wasn't worried about raising "why are there two Melissas" questions, Iris might've been there too.

Dahlia acted like she recognized Mia on the first case, but she had to act she was a totally different person. Regarding Mia, maybe she didn't get along the branch family until her mother dissapeared.



She knew all the time, her mother appeared some time before and told her her daughter was in danger.

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There's no evidence that Bikini knew about the plot. She only knew Misty had a daughter named Maya. (Why she didn't make the connection, I have no idea...)

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Didn't Mia say during 3-1 to Payne that she and Dahlia 'met before, once' in reference to 4-1? I'm pretty sure he asks her if they had met and Mia answers that.

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Yes, Mia said that.

As for why she didn't recognize Dahlia before 3-4, well, DL-6 was over ten years ago at that point, people change.

Besides, we're talking about a woman who has problems keeping her own clients' names straight.

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I dunno, it seems a little farfetched to me... Also, another thing I'm almost sure they said during T&T was that Dahlia's father split town with Dahlia as a baby.

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I'm almost certain that they said that Dahlia's father left after Misty became master, which they said was three years before DL-6. Dahlia would've been about 5 when Misty became master. I guess MAYBE it was before Misty became master, when it became certain that Misty was going to become master, but I think it was after.

Dahlia specifically said that she's the one who convicned her father to leave Kurain Village, though I'm not sure exactly when she did that. Also, Dahlia originally being from Kurain Village wasn't a factor in 3-4, so I don't think Mia felt the need to bring it up.

Besides, if she did, that would ruin the surprise in 3-5, and that right there is not good storytelling.

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I don't remember Dahlia ever saying she asked her father to leave Kurain. In fact, I remember her saying that she stole the diamond as revenge for it. I DO remember her saying that she asked her father to send Iris away (so that there would be fewer people to divide the household's money among), but that would have been a little after he left Kurain, when he married Valerie's mom. I'm not sure why she felt such moral outrage about her dad abandoning Morgan when she ENCOURAGED him to abandon Iris, but she's a psychopath, so harms other people inflict that affect her are in a totally different mental category for her from harms she inflicts on others.

She said that while she was pretending to be Iris. She was probably acting to make Phoenix feel pity for her, knowing his big heart and all, and then take advantage of that to hurt him in some way.

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She said that while she was pretending to be Iris. She was probably acting to make Phoenix feel pity for her, knowing his big heart and all, and then take advantage of that to hurt him in some way.

EDIT: Goddamn iPhone made me double post.

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Good point. Dahlia could've also been repeating whatever lie she told to Iris. I'm reasonably sure it was the real Iris who said, "Dahlia was so smart and strong and never complained about anything. That's why I helped her." Dahlia probably had to come up with some kind of excuse to get Iris to sympathize with her. It would make sense for her to repeat that excuse when she's pretending to be Iris.

In a way, I agree and disagree with that at the same time. Keep in mind, when Dahlia talked about her convincing her father to leave Kurain Village, she had already revealed her true nature, and the fact that she wasn't Iris (at least, that's how I remember it). She wasn't trying to gain sympathy from Phoenix, but she was still trying to hurt him.

Anyway, let's analyze everything that transpired in Dahlia's life, because I feel that there is a lot more to this story than is said in the game.

First, her life in Kurain Village. Morgan Fey wanted a child that would bring honor back to the branch family, and become Master of Kurain instead of Misty's children. However, neither Dahlia nor Iris had any real spiritual power to speak of. Disappointed and frustrated by this, Morgan neglected them. This in turn prompts Dahlia to convince her father to leave Kurain Village.

However, Mr. Hawthorne wasn't exactly Parent of the Year himself. Now, I don't remember Dahlia ever saying that she wanted Iris out of the picture until after Iris' betrayal, and that was just to threaten her into complying. Keep in mind, Iris was part of the diamond heist (she was the one who saved Dahlia from drowning in the Eagle River), but she didn't help her any further than that. That being the case and judging by everything we know thus far, it's safe to say that Mr. Hawthorne cared more about his new wife and stepdaughter more than he did his own daughters, one of whom he sent away because he thought that two daughters were enough. This is what drove Dahlia over the edge. Her revenge plan wasn't because they left Kurain Village, but because her father neglected her and Iris. And she would see this plan through to the end no matter who else got hurt.

So, perhaps Iris was right. Perhaps Dahlia's madness was due to a lack of love.

Now, I know what you're thinking: If Dahlia hated her mother for neglecting her, why did she agree to help in Morgan's plan to make Pearl Master of Kurain? Well, in that case, it seems that Morgan didn't think her plan all the way through.

Think of it this way: Suppose everything went according to plan, and Maya died at Dahlia's hands while she was being channeled by Pearl. What would happen then? Dahlia has no reason to hide the evidence and protect Pearl. If anything, she would most likely screw Morgan over and let Pearl take the fall for Maya's murder, and there would be nothing that Morgan could do about it. Even if Phoenix figured it out, there would be no way to bring the true murderer to justice (she's dead), so Pearl would essentially be left out to dry.

...

I think about this stuff way too much.

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She did? I don't remember that. In fact, I remember Iris saying that she was supposed help Dahlia during the fake kidnapping but she chickened out and didn't show up. I actually never understood what Iris was supposed to do.


Oh, that's simple: Dahlia hated Mia more than she hated her mother. For Dahlia, the plan was not about making Pearl master of Kurain, but about killing Maya.

I think she mentioned her father in court after she had revealed her true nature. However, I have a more vivid memory of when she talked about her father in the cave when she was pretending to be Iris. Does someone have the quote for what she said about her parents in court?



If by "out of the picture" you mean "out of their father's household," I'm going to have to disagree with the bolded statement. Dahlia definitely said something in court in 3-5 about how there would be more money to go around with fewer daughters.



Yeah. As far as we know, there's no time limit on channeling, so Dahlia might've even been able to try to permanently steal Pearl's body. As long as she didn't let anyone do the spirit severing technique on her, Dollie would be back.

That doesn't necessarily mean she wanted to get rid of Iris. Keep in mind, if Dahlia was going to have any say in this, it would've been before the diamond heist, and before Iris' so-called betrayal. Iris grew up with Dahlia all her life, while Valerie was more or less a stranger. If anything, she would've wanted Valerie out of the house more than Iris.

Perhaps she dropped the hint to her father, but he misinterpreted it (or perhaps cared about his stepdaughter more than the twins) and gave Iris away. That might've been reason enough for revenge. But, I'm just speculating.



And then what? Become the top suspect in Maya's murder? Dahlia's not stupid. She would know that she'd get away with it much more easily if she just let Pearl take the fall.



I'm taking this from Iris' profile on the Court Records main site, though truth be told, I don't remember them ever saying so in the game. It's true that Dahlia expected more from Iris in the grand scheme of things, but like you said, she backed out.

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Dahlia: A stupid plan hatched by Morgan Fey to install her own daughter as the next Master.
Phoenix: *HOLD IT!*
Phoenix: You're talking about Pearl Fey, is that correct?
Dahlia: Yes, though at first she had high hopes for the two of us.
Godot: You and your twin sister, Iris?
Dahlia: That's correct. Fortunately, neither of us had much spiritual power.
Dahlia: That's why... we were abandoned by her... along with our father.
Judge: A-Abandoned...?
Dahlia: The only person I ever really cared about in life was myself...
Dahlia: My sister was a nuisance, so I convinced my father to leave her at an old temple.
Phoenix: You mean Iris...?
Dahlia: ...Yes, my father remarried a woman who also had a daughter.
Dahlia: The less children you have, the more money there is to go around, right?
Dahlia: And on top of that, my father had absolutely no interest in children in general.
Judge: H... How horrible...
Dahlia: The real horrible one was that woman... That bitter, vengeful woman.
Dahlia: It was her stubbornness that gave birth to that child... Pearl Fey.
Dahlia: She was born with an abundance of spiritual power. ...Unfortunately for her.
Dahlia: Morgan Fey heaped all of her broken hopes and dreams on to that poor child's back.
Dahlia: All because of her pathetic dreams of having her bloodline become the main family.

I stand corrected.

However, this doesn't change my original theory. Dahlia's revenge was for her father's neglect. Word to the wise, Mr. Hawthorne: If you have no interest in children, don't have kids.

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Nah, I think your theory still holds water. I wouldn't put too much faith in the word of a habitual liar.

oh god I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this topic again nooooo

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In any case, it is definitely a possibility.

I always thought that Dahlia's behaviour and reactions around Mia were a bit suspicious.

Which is why I'm going to probably hint towards this in Mia Fey Ace Attorney.



Please check out http://moonshadow0989.deviantart.com

if interested.

This forum should be kept alive, it's a very interesting discussion.

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Alright,I just arrived in this topic and I readed everything.Let's see what my headcanon is:

Morgan Fey,being the oldest heir to the position of Master of the Kurain Channeling Technique,would naturally become the Master.
The Master has many influence,not only in Kurain,but political influence outside of the village,as well.
Mr.Hawthorne married Morgan because he thought she was going to inherit the Master's spiritual powers,becoming very influent inside and outside Kurain Village,and having a lot of power(you know what I mean).
Morgan married Mr.Hawthorne to have children so they could be the Master sometime in the future.
But both plans backfired.
Morgan didn't become the master,and both Dahlia and Iris were born with no spiritual power,leaving them with a bad marriage and children none of them wanted.
Mr.Hawthorne then took the twins with him,saying he was leaving because he was "tired of living in a village run only by women",hiding his own true motive to marry Morgan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now,about Mia and Dahlia.
Bridge to the Turnabout takes place in the start of 2019.Let's assume(Making an ass out of u and me)that none of the characters had their birthday yet.
On Elise Deauxnim's(Misty Fey) profile,it can be clearly seen that she is 49.Maya was 19 and if Mia was alive,she would 29,making Misty Fey a mother at a very young,because 49-29=20(Misty Fey:Ace Teen Mother).Dahlia is 4 years younger than Mia.The DL-6 incident happened when Mia was 12,so 12-3=9.
Dahlia and Iris would be 5 years old when Mr.Hawthorne left with them.
Mia met again with Dahlia on her first trial.Mia was 23 while Dahlia was 19.Meaning they hadn't seen each other for 14 years.14 FREAKIN' YEARS!
That would mean that Mia probably wouldn't remember her.She couldn't even pronounce Phoenix's name Wright.(puns)
But Dahlia could remember Mia.And why? Because of her last name.
Fey.
That made Dahlia remember of everything.Kurain Village,spirit mediums,Magatamas,cursing other people,channeling,Masters and...
...her family.
That's how Dahlia recognized Mia.
Continues on the next post because I need to do something else right now.

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