Hi everyone! I love designing outfits, especially for anime-styled themes, and I would love to help out with Super Makoto if possible. I should be getting a graphics tablet in a few days so that my drawings will be a little more likable, accurate, etc. I've been going into Paintchat a lot recently, so hopefully I can help out if needed.
What other kind of stuff have you done in the past. I'm interested in seeing...
Unfortunately, I haven't really drawn much lately, and I hardly have anything saved to my computer. But I have been drawing anime/manga-style artwork since first grade and I'm a quick artist, especially with regard to designing different outfits on a whim. I will be in PaintChat, though, so you're always welcome to see my work there...once I get a graphics tablet. Meanwhile, there's always the chance that my Ayame/Chinami pic made it into the oekaki thread.
*is trying to read all of the Super Makoto thread*
Name/Super Name:Aiga Hoshiidake/ The Eccentrist Age, Gender, Height, Occupation:34, male, scientist/former detective Blurb: Eccentricity is purely elementary. Personality: Refined, almost to a fault, and very particular, Aiga is dedicated to his craft of science, creating formulas and weaponry. His most notable creation is a small pink gun for his chief of security, Kaoru. His speech is littered with old-fashioned words, and he carries himself with an air of arrogance, demanding respect from those he meets. Powers/Skills: He has the ability to register thousands of calculations per minute. As The Eccentrist, he sports a monocle with a special function, allowing him to temporarily read the mind of his opponent. Friends, Family, Foes: His greatest foe is legendary thief Kamen Mask; during his tenure as a detective, he followed the phantom thief relentlessly. Now as a scientist, he is joined by his faithful assistant Yuuka, and his creation Repast....through economical expansion, he temporarily joins with Le Comte, and at one point has worked with fellow scientist Ema Skye.
Random Facts: He tends to speak highly of himself, often using "ore" instead of "boku".
History and Background: Before ever wanting world domination, or international fame, Aiga was a normal, studious boy..Until the Kiddy Fiddler walked into his life uninvitingly. Tainting the young boy, he left Aiga confused....thus creating his attention-seeking personality disorder. As he came of age, he put science on hold, instead using his tactical thinking to become a detective, especially after learning of Kamen Mask's first stint in theft. Pulling the strings, he blackmailed the phantom thief into stealing, so Aiga would get the fame for retrieving the stolen items, exactly as he wanted. However, this plan severely backfired... Beginning a "new" life, he has finally taken up science once again; and has more of the chance to experiment when he just so happens to be in the "right place at the right time", as his new assistant has just been bestowed her powers, and ends up saving her when she nearly falls to her death. With a loyal cohort by his side, Aiga prepares to take on his new duties.
Location: Concrete jungle where dreams are made of
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:18 pm
Posts: 807
I’m not sure of the whole timeline of when everything happened but here I go…
This is what I have so far. I can always edit and/or add some more details later on depending on info we have about the other characters.
I made some edits to her background info.
Spoiler: Lyss
Name/Super Name: Lyss / Agent Vigidis
Age, Gender, Height, Occupation: 18, Female, 5’6”, Agent working for the Government
Blurb: A mysterious agent working for the government that tracks down the sources of strange occurrences and tries to stop them. Is loyal to HoboCop.
Personality: Though she puts on the act of being cool and collected, she can also be timid at times, depending on the people she talks to. However, fighting or tracking down the causes of strange events really get her blood pumping. She can never pass down a good fight or mystery she comes in contact with. And when she does, her personality changes drastically from calm to feisty. She absolutely hates losing a battle or not finding the correct causes to her problems. Can also be very stubborn at times. When it comes to HoboCop, she is extremely loyal.
Powers/Skills: Though she doesn’t have any supernatural powers, rumors say she throws a punch so fierce it can break through stone. She’s very skilled in the art of kickboxing and a bit of martial arts.
Random Facts: Has an obsession for frappuccinos (frozen cappuccinos), especially mocha flavored. Likes sweets in general. Has a weakness for cute things such as puppies, kittens, newborn babies, etc. Adores children. Has a love for art and drawing.
“Vigidis” is a reference to the Norwegian War Goddess.
Friends, Family, Foes: Lyss is usually friendly with those she can relate to or are comfortable with. However her closest friend and current family is HoboCop, as well as the Edge when she sees him time to time. She considers anyone who is a threat to society her enemy. Her main enemy however, is whoever caused HoboCop to be in the state he is in now.
History and Background: Lyss doesn’t remember most of her past. Her one dark memory is of waking up in a blood-drenched household with the parents she once had, lying dead on the floor. When the murderer tried to kill Lyss as well, a man named Phoenix Wright stepped in and saved her. Phoenix worked for a special ops unit that was tracking down the murderer that killed her family. Ever since that day, Lyss has always been loyal to Phoenix for saving her life. Phoenix found an apartment for Lyss to live in as his unit would keep close surveillance on her. He feels that someone may go after her because she's the last living member of her family. Lyss wonders why anyone would attack her. Was her family hiding a dangerous secret? Once in a while Phoenix would sometimes visit and take her to places such as the museum or the beach and acted as her bodyguard. He would always tell her to believe in herself and that she should take up some sort of protection when he's not around. Lyss thought of him as an older brother. One day, Phoenix's ops unit had been assigned a mission in Bolognia. Lyss asked what his mission was, but he wouldn’t tell her for information from his ops unit was top secret. Time passed and Phoenix has been away for a very long time. Marvin Grossberg, the leader of Phoenix’s unit, had called and said that Phoenix had gone missing once they got back from Bolognia. Lyss made it her mission to find Phoenix. She knew Phoenix was still alive, and she was going to track down whoever or whatever caused him to become inactive. She was tired of living in the shadows, feeling like she could never do anything for herself or others. At the age of 16, she had become a secret agent working for the Government. From there she would be able to investigate these occurences as well as track down her only friend and family. Later on she runs into Super Makoto, believing she is an enemy at first. She eventually finds out that SuMako is not a threat to society and that she has her own burdens to bear. Lyss tells SuMako that she hopes to cross paths with her someday again and that she'll try to help stop her enemy. SuMako thanks her but says that won't be necessary for she is the only one who can stop her enemy. However, she does wish that once she completes her goal, that they could become friends. After they go their seperate ways, Lyss begins to wonder just who this 'enemy" of Super Makoto's is. Lyss then runs into HoboCop. She discovers that HoboCop is actually Phoenix Wright "reborn". He is not Phoenix Wright anymore, but a man whose body had been fused with cybernetic parts. HoboCop asks Lyss if she would become his ally. She takes up on the offer and becomes HoboCop's partner. Lyss made a new vow: To find whoever had done this to HoboCop, and make them pay.
Last edited by LySs on Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Doylie, if you want to help out the best way to get started is to get your ideas in order - don't worry if they're for characters that have already been developed, because we always like to hear new takes and concepts. If it helps, you should read over the entire thread and/or what's on the website. The most important thing for you to do, though, is to get involved with talking with other people involved with this project - the easiest way is to hang around in the paint chat. Keep an eye out for primary figureheads like myself or Urby, and other "team members" like Yuu, Silver, Sami-Fire, Trilroy, and pretty much anyone else who's shown interest in or contributed to this thread. You never know who can light up a completely new idea.
Welcome aboard, and leave your sanity at home. There are a lot of bits and pieces in Super Makoto that we need to have developed, so getting more people working with us is always a boon.
Phhh, Luke Atmey is not love :< I'm much too used to Aiga, plzkbai.
I'm in the process of writing the profile for the Silver Plushie at the moment, but afterwards I'll try writing Makoto's...because for some reason I'm billed to do so?
Doylie! Oh Doylie I was was wondering when you'd stop by D: I would love to have you aboard. If you need anything clarified I can sit down with you and straighten things out, k? :>
Funk, the CCs require a lot more work and meticulous care. Bear with us as we make them suitable and respectful(?) caricatures of their original selves! ;*
RE: LySs You mind cutting it all down to a historical synopsis instead of a fanfic? Something else feels odd about it, but I'm not sure how I would change it, at the moment, though. Is it really sensible to have Phoenix Wright invite a strange girl to live with him? You should take this up with the others on the team - personally, I'm against it. (Not like he hasn't done it before... but in this case, his job being what it is, I'm not sure he has time or energy for pro bono work like that.) Also: PENNY!!! XD
Location: Concrete jungle where dreams are made of
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:18 pm
Posts: 807
MoronSonOfBoron wrote:
Funk, the CCs require a lot more work and meticulous care. Bear with us as we make them suitable and respectful(?) caricatures of their original selves! ;*
RE: LySs You mind cutting it all down to a historical synopsis instead of a fanfic? Something else feels odd about it, but I'm not sure how I would change it, at the moment, though. Is it really sensible to have Phoenix Wright invite a strange girl to live with him? You should take this up with the others on the team - personally, I'm against it. (Not like he hasn't done it before... but in this case, his job being what it is, I'm not sure he has time or energy for pro bono work like that.) Also: PENNY!!! XD
Yeah sorry about that. Even I was all 'WTF" after I read what I just wrote. That's what happens when you jot down what you're thinking spontaneously I guess. XD
I'll cut it down. I can understand why you're against it. I don't think Lyss will exactly "live" with Phoenix, it's more like she's under surveillance by his unit. Lyss will probably find an apartment or something but she is sometimes visited by Phoenix or she sometimes visits him, but she's not allowed to know the details of any of his missions.
Hey would that make The Edge as Brain then? *shot*
Last edited by LySs on Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I had more Bolginian Terrorist Cell Incident dreams, and decided I'd use them to fill in some of the blanks, so to speak.
Spoiler: Another BTC Incident Summary
A special ops unit lead by Marvin Grossberg was sent to Bolginia in an attempt to neutralize a certain infamous terrorist cell. The unit contained three other members besides Grossberg- Souryuu Kaminogi, Mia Fey, and Phoenix Wright. However, whilst Phoenix Wright was then ranked at the same level as his two partners, he showed far less skill on the battlefield, and was often thought of lowly by his superiors. A week before the fateful mission was to begin, Kaminogi announced at the same time both his engagement to Mia Fey and his upcoming promotion.
Phoenix, boiling with jealousy, went out to a nearby bar to drown his sorrows in alcohol. By a strange twist of fate, the terrorist leader, Chinami, happened to be there as well that night. Phoenix, finding himself talking to her, basically spills his guts to her about the whole unit. Chinami, sensing a chance to gain the upper hand, learns all she can from Phoenix, then tosses a simple knockout drug in his drink and leaves him unconcious.
On August 27, 2012, during a planned secretive attack of the terrorist base, Mia Fey is shot and killed. Phoenix is horrified as he realizes what has happened, but says nothing.
A certain government spy, disguised as a blind singer at the bar, had overheard the conversation, but thought nothing of it until after the fact. After Mia Fey's death, she contacted her superiors. Upon returning to the United States, Phoenix was brought to the offices of two high ranking officials, Lana Skye and Damon Gant. Gant explained that, though he was aware of Phoenix's guilt in the matter, Kaminogi had been a thorn in his side for a long time, investigating things Gant would rather him not investigate. So, after coming to an agreement, the three work together to forge evidence in order to convict Kaminogi for the betrayal, using Miles Edgeworth as a weapon to seal the verdict. And so, in this way, Kaminogi is sentenced to life in prison. Phoenix is then given an honorable discharge after Gant speaks up on his behalf, saying that "the stress of losing his good friend Souryuu Kaminogi was too much for him to take". Some time after this, Gant, becoming paranoid, attempts to murder Phoenix. The resulting incident could perhaps result in both Phoenix and Gant gaining their powers...?
Keep in mind, I'm just puking up ideas here. I don't think this is anywhere near as polished as it needs to be.
But this is actually a pretty good draft. It makes use of Phoenix in Chinami's scheming, and also takes the weight off of Godot for blaming Phoenix for the incident. Chinami sure is one confident little witch, though, if she's willing to get that close to the very unit that is hunting her! I like it, I like it lots.
I am completely unsure what to think of the Lana/Gant bit, though. What -was- Kiddy Fiddler before he was the Fiddler? And I would like to wait on what Silver has to say about her ideas for Lana before we decide on that bit, anyhow. Phoenix covering up his involvement in Mia's death? It sounds a little extreme, but somewhat believable. How is he supposed to face Maya, now?
As for Lamiroir, I don't know what to do with her just yet...
It's been a while since art has been posted to this thread.
So, here's one that Yuu did on the Oekaki, in an attempt to explain how they can track down HOBOCOP- since he can probably use his hobo powers to move stealthily through the urban jungle.
The details escape me at this point... something about Aiga (Atmey?) looking too hard and not finding it, while Yuu looks up "office ladies with guns" on the SECRET GOVERNMENT SHOUJO MANGA DATABASE and somehow gets this result... I think...
Spoiler: Is this better or worse than office ladies with guns?
Well, HOBOCOP wields GUNS and PHOENIX WRIGHT's OFFICE has had its fair share of LADIES in it. All the keywords certainly would be in his government profile page.
Sticks and stones may break my bones... But a giant mallet will break them faster.
I'm in the process of writing the profile for the Silver Plushie at the moment
WHAT IS THIS AND WHY WAS I NOT INF--oh wait. We agreed on this didn't we. >>. *slinks away*
DOYLIE DEAR! 8D I'd love for you to contribute! As Bee said, hanging out in the paintchat, reading over the thread, and browsing the website would all be good ways to start Feel free to ask any questions or throw out any ideas you have :)
@Funk about OCs being the ones with profiles: The canon characters for the most part aren't, uh, done enough to write profiles for ;P Proven by how many holes are in the Ema profile I wrote >>; OCs are easier so we're getting them out of the way.
@Bee: As I said, I don't have any ideas for Lana anymore ;P Go ahead and do whatever you want with her, although I'm interested in contributing ideas and commenting on whatever you guys are planning to do with her.
NRA. rofl. Another idea buzzed in my head when I went to bed last night. Aiga could be trying to haxx0r the file, and in frustration, goes off to do something scientific, not realizing he forgot to back out of the screen. Enter Yuu, who just wants to look up the latest shoujo manga... Reading through the results she finds [which aren't related to manga], she remembers that Aiga mentioned something about Le Comte and a Phoenix Wright at one time. So she rushes off to tell him, and he just kinda....stares at her.
"....I've been looking for that for at least three months..." "Maybe you were looking too hard...." "Proposterous." "You're welcome."
-shot- Sorry for not shading that pic too. XD; I got too tired... And Funk. As an added note, we're trying to keep CCs as close to their actual being as possible...that's taking more time and we'd rather not do it half-ass. That being said, anyone with criticism should keep it constructive.
*gulp* I just ran into a dilemma... for the sake of keeping some canon with our crack, shouldn't Kiri/Sadi have some interaction/conflict with Hobocop? The only problem is that their storylines are (as of now) very, very seperate. We also have the silly/serious character concept problem. We have Hobocop, who is all "blah blah Bolginian Terrorist Cell, Souryuu Kaminogi, Feys"- a serious concept. And then we have Kiri... "HA HA I TURN INTO A GIRL WITH (NORMALLY) OBSCENELY LARGE BOOBS WHEN I GET PISSED >:D" A very NOT serious concept. Although I have somewhat succeeded in annexing a serious concept to a non-serious character (ie. the business with Shannon), any Hobocop/Kiri/Sadi conflict could be a bit of trouble...
Ahih=makyan; Avatar art by LunaOfWater on DeviantArt.
*gulp* I just ran into a dilemma... for the sake of keeping some canon with our crack, shouldn't Kiri/Sadi have some interaction/conflict with Hobocop? The only problem is that their storylines are (as of now) very, very seperate. We also have the silly/serious character concept problem. We have Hobocop, who is all "blah blah Bolginian Terrorist Cell, Souryuu Kaminogi, Feys"- a serious concept. And then we have Kiri... "HA HA I TURN INTO A GIRL WITH (NORMALLY) OBSCENELY LARGE BOOBS WHEN I GET PISSED >:D" A very NOT serious concept. Although I have somewhat succeeded in annexing a serious concept to a non-serious character (ie. the business with Shannon), any Hobocop/Kiri/Sadi conflict could be a bit of trouble...
This is from Silver, but since she's unable to post at this moment, I'm doing it for her.
Quote:
So today in paintchat, we came up with why Kiri hates Makoto, and how the two met. Credit goes to Gigafreak for being the one to come up with the initial idea. I'm going to be posting snippets of paintchat conversation because the dialogue adds to the affect.
This takes place when Makoto is still her child self, completely sheltered from the world's evil. She is the defendant in a trial, and Kirihito is her defense attorney. At this point, Sadi has not yet been created, and he is in the middle of a very heated struggle with his inner demon due to his immense jealousy of Hobo Cop. And while he's struggling with the monster inside him, he meets a little girl, who does not even know that the monster inside him exists, who is the very epitome of innocence, sitting their drawing and not paying attention to her murder trial or realizing how important it is for her to testify correctly. This child is such the opposite of him, and she came at the exactly wrong time and to add insult to injury, he's forced to defend her, to prove her innocence when her innocence is what's driving him up the wall.
During a recess in the trial, they are off in a corner of the defendant痴 lobby. He's trying to explain the importance of the trial to her, and she is ignoring him in favor of drawing. Kiri is absolutely STEWING and his usual pleasant smile is so forced and plastered on that his jaw hurts. And Makoto, being so innocent and sheltered, knowing nothing about sex, looks at him and thinks, he's not very pretty. He would be prettier as a woman. And so, she decides to draw that. And given her Power Perfect, I think you can guess what happens.
(Dialogue written by Sami) Kiri: "BLAH BLAH BLA IMPORTANT STUFF HERE" Makoto: "(He's not very pretty... let's see... :D *draws Sadi*
(Alternate dialogue written by Urby) Urby > "WHY DON'T YOU HAVE BOOBS?" Urby > "MAYBE YOU LOST THEM" Urby > "HERE HAVE SOME :D" Urby > "WTF I'M A GUY D<" Urby > But (s)he calms down and explains the significance of *why* he shouldn't have boobs. Urby > And they disappear when he's calm.
So basically, because she turned him into a woman at the exact second that he was just STEWING with rage, his negative energy was what went into physically manifesting her drawing. Once he explained the situation to her, she erased her drawing, and his body was reformed as a man just as he calmed down due to her understanding. Because of this, his negative impulses and his female body were bound, as are his last shred of sanity and his male body, and for years to come, whenever his negative urges overcame him, his body morphed shape into an entirely different entity, named Sadistress.
After he proved Makoto innocent in the trial, he swore revenge. Sadistress's creation marked the final triumph of evil over good for him, and he was enraged that a child caused his evil side to go over the edge in an act of innocence, and that she had no idea what she'd done because she didn't know that evil existed. Her innocence and purity made him jealous, and her ignorance and actions made him mad. He's also jealous because after witnessing her morphing his body shape, he KNOWS that her drawings have power, and he's mad that his powers require evil to unleash while hers are fueled by innocent doodles. He seeks out a good, strong woman to keep his power in check, which is where Shannon comes in. [Sami's note: Some clarification: (Silver) "Well, his evil side wants power to use for his jealousy-fueled revenge on Hobocop. (Sami) " But the real Kiri- Kiri himself- doesn't want any of it. Shannon is the sane side of Kiri's last-ditch attempt to stay grounded. Even though Shannon rejects Sadi at first, Shannon eventually returns because she understands that Kiri needs her love. Kiri, on the other hand, desperately holds on to the feeling that she'll come back- she's the only one he's seen that can mollify Sadistress. Sadi, of course, is furious about Shannon leaving. And, as I've said a few times, this is the core of most of their conflicts."]
And perhaps, a few years later, he offers a little girl a bottle of nail polish.
The next matter of business is how Kiri met Hobocop and why he's all "OMG NARUHODO YOU BITCH" about him. (Yes, I talk like this late at night, why do you ask?)
And these snippets, because I like them: (MSOB) "Well in some respects he feels justified and powerful now that he's embraced his dark side. Perhaps his burning off his negative energy as Sadi lets him relax better as a defense attorney for the innocent. And especially after saving Shannon [from Urami in the EPIC BETRAYAL] he may realize that his negative urges can be applied to socially acceptable uses. [Well, I wouldn't say have Sadi beat the stuffing out of Urami is socially acceptable in the strictest sense, but... yah.] Though Sadi is still of the mindset to disobey the law... SCREW THE RULES I HAVE BOOBS!" (Silver) "Personally, I like the idea of a man guilty of getting rid of his innocent helping to prove the innocence of others. And he might focus on finding the real killer or evidence forgery to satisfy his negative urges." (Sami) "In psychology terms, Kiri is VERY id-driven. That is, very driven by his primitive urges. The id is also about SATISFACTION NAO, so that also works."
Edit: A nitpick removed at Silver's request. XD I didn't see the "perhaps." Oh well it was late at night 8D
Ahih=makyan; Avatar art by LunaOfWater on DeviantArt.
Last edited by Sami-Fire on Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm going to bring these points up in the PaintChat soon, but I'm putting them here just because. Anyway, I had a bunch of last-minute realizations after I signed off last night... And when I was supposed to be sleeping, haw haw.
1. Kirihito and Shannon's relationship no longer seems to be a matter of "warts and all" acceptance, but of how willing Shannon is to help Kiri cope with his problems. That being said, this sort of adds a new dimension to Kiri/Housuke's relationship: maybe Housuke was the closest thing to a coping mechanism Kirihito had before Shannon came along. In this there's also a reason for the rivalry between Sadistress and Apollo- Apollo failed to help Kiri cope with his problems, so Sadi comes out in fury at Apollo's failure. It's also why Sadi shows up when Shannon's around after the seperation: Kiri/Sadi doesn't want another failure, especially since this one was so close to success. 2. Kirihito and Sadistress seem to be more of the same person than in previous drafts... is this good or bad? I would like to keep a few of Sadi's personality quirks around just for the humor value/to further set them apart, but that's just me. 3. Should Hobocop be Kiri's first instance of going bad? It seem that Kiri's timeline would go like this: Kiri meets Hobocop and gets his first blast of jealousy. -> Kiri meets Makoto and Sadistress is created. -> Kiri tries to use Apollo to help ease his pain, but this fails and actually gives Sadistress more power. -> Kiri meets Shannon. 4. About Makoto "creating" Sadistress... does Kiri want the "curse" removed? (Sadistress is only a physical manifestation, so Kiri would still have his problems even after Sadi was taken out of the picture. However, because they're not bound to a physical being anymore, the impulses might actually go away faster after Sadi is dispelled...) If he does, does Makoto remove the "curse?" Is she able to do so at all? Oh come on, Sadistress wouldn't die so easily XD ...So, yah. Let's answer these bits and pieces first before we work on Kiri/Hobocop. *ticktick*
Ahih=makyan; Avatar art by LunaOfWater on DeviantArt.
In this there's also a reason for the rivalry between Sadistress and Apollo- Apollo failed to help Kiri cope with his problems, so Sadi comes out in fury at Apollo's failure. It's also why Sadi shows up when Shannon's around after the seperation: Kiri/Sadi doesn't want another failure, especially since this one was so close to success.
But doesn't Sadi WANT Kiri's attempts at coping to fail? Doesn't she WANT to come out more? Or do you mean that it's Kiri who's mad at Apollo and Sadi comes out because of that?
Sami-Fire wrote:
2. Kirihito and Sadistress seem to be more of the same person than in previous drafts... is this good or bad? I would like to keep a few of Sadi's personality quirks around just for the humor value/to further set them apart, but that's just me.
Definitely a good thing. Considering that Kiri HIMSELF is a sociopath in canon, I don't want us to turn it into a "He's a good guy who'll start skipping merrily in fields of flowers once Makoto removes his itty bitty curse! :D" I'm not saying that what we have now won't work, and having an alter ego definitely lends itself to more of a multiple personality type deal, but I don't want him to get any further separated than he already is.
Sami-Fire wrote:
3. Should Hobocop be Kiri's first instance of going bad? It seem that Kiri's timeline would go like this: Kiri meets Hobocop and gets his first blast of jealousy. -> Kiri meets Makoto and Sadistress is created. -> Kiri tries to use Apollo to help ease his pain, but this fails and actually gives Sadistress more power. -> Kiri meets Shannon.
That timeline seems about right, yes. But once again, I'm wary of having a "He was a totally nice guy but then he met Hobocop and got jealous so he was turned into a monster because he was jealous of one person!" If he was driven to murder and evidence forgery in canon because of jealousy, he already had issues, so I think its safe to say that Phoenix wasn't the first person he ever had negative feelings for. If you mean that Hobocop is the first person that we're mentioning by name in SuMako canon, then yes, I think it's safe to just skim over Kiri's life and assume that he's been insane for quite some time, though Hobocop and Makoto tipped him over the edge.
Sami-Fire wrote:
4. About Makoto "creating" Sadistress... does Kiri want the "curse" removed? (Sadistress is only a physical manifestation, so Kiri would still have his problems even after Sadi was taken out of the picture. However, because they're not bound to a physical being anymore, the impulses might actually go away faster after Sadi is dispelled...) If he does, does Makoto remove the "curse?" Is she able to do so at all? Oh come on, Sadistress wouldn't die so easily XD ...So, yah. Let's answer these bits and pieces first before we work on Kiri/Hobocop. *ticktick*
The way I see it, Sadistress is what Kirihito would be if he lacked control, if he gave into all his urges without careful planning and consideration. Of course, nobody is 100% "evil" so he'd definitely have SOME conscience wanting to remove Sadi--but I think what would make him ACTIVELY try to get rid of her is the lack of CONTROL. When he feels like he has no control over his body and could give in to murderous urges at any time without careful planning, it'll make him much more insane than he usually is, which in turn makes Sadi more likely to come out. It's a vicious cycle, so he'd probably go until he got her removed or he was driven to complete insanity that caused him to either permanently become Sadi or die.
Incidentally, I think that's a good reason for him to be seeking people like Odoroki out--to feel in control. An eager-to-please trainee under your hand is definitely a source of control, and I think that that sense of control might be what about Odoroki, Shannon, etc. helps calm him down.
As for Makoto "removing the curse", I'm against that unless it causes Kiri to die or after Sadi is removed, he's immediately carted off to jail (where he'd get the death penalty anyway, so it doesn't matter). I don't mind the "get rid of the curse" idea fundamentally, I'm just worried that we're trying to go down a salvation route when I really do think that driving home a theme of inescapable punishment serves as a nice contrast to Makoto's innocent view of the world--considering Kiri and Mako's past in this, I think really emphasizing how opposite they are would be the right way to go.
In this there's also a reason for the rivalry between Sadistress and Apollo- Apollo failed to help Kiri cope with his problems, so Sadi comes out in fury at Apollo's failure. It's also why Sadi shows up when Shannon's around after the seperation: Kiri/Sadi doesn't want another failure, especially since this one was so close to success.
But doesn't Sadi WANT Kiri's attempts at coping to fail? Doesn't she WANT to come out more? Or do you mean that it's Kiri who's mad at Apollo and Sadi comes out because of that?
The "Kiri mad at Apollo" fits more what I meant... Kiri/Sadi is just angry at Apollo's general failure. Because of this, Apollo's a lightningrod for Sadi.
SilverZephyr wrote:
Sami-Fire wrote:
2. Kirihito and Sadistress seem to be more of the same person than in previous drafts... is this good or bad? I would like to keep a few of Sadi's personality quirks around just for the humor value/to further set them apart, but that's just me.
Definitely a good thing. Considering that Kiri HIMSELF is a sociopath in canon, I don't want us to turn it into a "He's a good guy who'll start skipping merrily in fields of flowers once Makoto removes his itty bitty curse! :D" I'm not saying that what we have now won't work, and having an alter ego definitely lends itself to more of a multiple personality type deal, but I don't want him to get any further separated than he already is.
Ack, no no noooo... I didn't mean that. There's no way in hell he'll ever be the "fields of flowers" kind of guy *shudders at the image*... I meant Makoto just removing the effect of Sadistress and then leaving Kiri to figure himself out. By the way, how would he get more seperate? It seems he's as seperate as he can get without... stuff... happening: two distinct personalities that are sides of the same person, but have their own nuances. There's something totally obvious I'm missing/forgetting here, isn't there? X__________X
SilverZephyr wrote:
Sami-Fire wrote:
3. Should Hobocop be Kiri's first instance of going bad? It seem that Kiri's timeline would go like this: Kiri meets Hobocop and gets his first blast of jealousy. -> Kiri meets Makoto and Sadistress is created. -> Kiri tries to use Apollo to help ease his pain, but this fails and actually gives Sadistress more power. -> Kiri meets Shannon.
That timeline seems about right, yes. But once again, I'm wary of having a "He was a totally nice guy but then he met Hobocop and got jealous so he was turned into a monster because he was jealous of one person!" If he was driven to murder and evidence forgery in canon because of jealousy, he already had issues, so I think its safe to say that Phoenix wasn't the first person he ever had negative feelings for. If you mean that Hobocop is the first person that we're mentioning by name in SuMako canon, then yes, I think it's safe to just skim over Kiri's life and assume that he's been insane for quite some time, though Hobocop and Makoto tipped him over the edge.
Well, yah. I was only using SuMako's events for that. It's obviously not just that one incident- that was merely the spark that set it off. There must have been plenty of TNT/whatever laying around before the whole thing blew up (twice), metaphorically speaking...
SilverZephyr wrote:
Sami-Fire wrote:
4. About Makoto "creating" Sadistress... does Kiri want the "curse" removed? (Sadistress is only a physical manifestation, so Kiri would still have his problems even after Sadi was taken out of the picture. However, because they're not bound to a physical being anymore, the impulses might actually go away faster after Sadi is dispelled...) If he does, does Makoto remove the "curse?" Is she able to do so at all? Oh come on, Sadistress wouldn't die so easily XD ...So, yah. Let's answer these bits and pieces first before we work on Kiri/Hobocop. *ticktick*
The way I see it, Sadistress is what Kirihito would be if he lacked control, if he gave into all his urges without careful planning and consideration. Of course, nobody is 100% "evil" so he'd definitely have SOME conscience wanting to remove Sadi--but I think what would make him ACTIVELY try to get rid of her is the lack of CONTROL. When he feels like he has no control over his body and could give in to murderous urges at any time without careful planning, it'll make him much more insane than he usually is, which in turn makes Sadi more likely to come out. It's a vicious cycle, so he'd probably go until he got her removed or he was driven to complete insanity that caused him to either permanently become Sadi or die.
Incidentally, I think that's a good reason for him to be seeking people like Odoroki out--to feel in control. An eager-to-please trainee under your hand is definitely a source of control, and I think that that sense of control might be what about Odoroki, Shannon, etc. helps calm him down.
As for Makoto "removing the curse", I'm against that unless it causes Kiri to die or after Sadi is removed, he's immediately carted off to jail (where he'd get the death penalty anyway, so it doesn't matter). I don't mind the "get rid of the curse" idea fundamentally, I'm just worried that we're trying to go down a salvation route when I really do think that driving home a theme of inescapable punishment serves as a nice contrast to Makoto's innocent view of the world--considering Kiri and Mako's past in this, I think really emphasizing how opposite they are would be the right way to go.
...Sounds better than what I've got (which is nothing, or something I'm blanking out on because I'm 'tard-a-licious today). It makes sense... control, control, control. Control Sadistress, control someone else because of Sadistress (Apollo), get some help with controlling Sadistress (Shannon)... (if I'm interpreting this backwards, feel free to shoot- I mean stop me). At one point, he does seize a tiny bit of control of Sadistress (ie. defeating Urami), but it seems to be an "x outweighs" situation: his hate for Urami outweighs his disappointment at Shannon.
Silver, you seem to be assuming that Kirihito actually committed a murder in SuMako canon... of course, he did in GS Canon, but I don't think we've determined that for SuMako. Right now, he's just a guy with major issues, not a psycho killer. Granted, he's probably roughed up a few people, but killed? Not sure. But then, if we're going the "irreversible, even with hax/thumbs down to Power Perfect involvement" route, take a look at this crapck I just thought up:
Spoiler: Epilogue/Endgame CRAPCK
Kiri: Makoto. Is it possible for you to reverse Sadistress? Makoto: ...Back then, I might have been able to... but you've progressed too far with Sadistress. I'm sorry, but I think that your emotions and your alternate form have formed too strong a bond- and both of those have gotten stronger individually. I don't think I could even remove Sadistress without... killing you... *sudden Sadi poof* Sadi: *comically exaggerated bawling* What?! Not even you, with your "Power Perfect" and your smilies and your "truth, justice, and the shiny happy way [granted, she's not so "shiny happy" anymore, but when Sadi needs something to bitch about, we all know she'll find something...]" can do anything? [She's clearly about to explode at this point, when...] Shannon: Sadi, please. Makoto, everything should be just fine... eventually. I think I know how to handle this...
Bleurgh, it sucks. But you get the gist, right? If there's anything important in that, it's Makoto's explanation for WHY she can't reverse the problem of Sadistress (NOT the personality issue itself). He can't ever completely heal his wounds- all he can do is prevent them from abscessing. What's with me and talking in metaphors? X_X
And I just noticed something... Sadistress is becoming a more serious character. Does this call for a redesign/renaming/all-around renovation? Or can we still stick with the humorous approach we started with/a variation of it? Super Makoto = SERIOUS BUSINESS nowadays... every arc is getting more serious with each little plot twist. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for La-La-Land With Unicorns And Other Pretty Things here (ick)... but I'm just pointing out that a lot of the crack seems to be draining out. [Oh hell it sounds like I'm asking for La-La-Land no matter how I put it... X_X] So... yah. What we going to do 'bout this, hm?
...I apologize if this is completely incoherent, I'm having a major brainsludge problem... Not even my own writing makes sense right now. X_X
Ahih=makyan; Avatar art by LunaOfWater on DeviantArt.
@Serious vs. Crack: The thing is, we're talking about the more serious side of Sadistress right now--we're talking about the psychological issues and possible outcomes. Of course she's still cracky--she's a guy who turns into a girl with huge boobs of doom and no doubt provides lots of comedy relief. Her CHARACTER is full of crack, but HOW her character came into existance can't...really be sugarcoated with crack and still make sense I think Makoto's innocent little "SHEMALE LAWL" is the most humorous we can get in that area, really--But Kiri's psychological issues are Srs bsnss.
@You thinking I'm assuming he's a murderer: No. But he has the CAPACITY to be a murderer, which is what I'm talking about psychology-wise. Also, I find it hard to believe that Sadi didn't at least kill ONE person on her rampages--unless I'm assuming her role all wrong? Not that we have to say "AND THEN SADI WENT OUT AND KILLED AN INNOCENT PERSON" in some random place in the story, it was just an implied thing for me.
She's a sadist, not a killer - hence her name. Granted, she might feel like killing a few buttheads that get on her bad side, but she far more enjoys drawing pain and torment out of someone rather than upright killing them. And then leaving them alive and controlling them through fear...
"Being bad wouldn't feel so good if I were a bad person."
Okay, it all makes sense now. XP (I need to post when my brain is functioning properly X_X) And, because I have a bad habit of thinking of ideas AFTER I have an opportunity to post them, some more braincorn:
1. It just occured to me that Makoto couldn't possibly have designed Sadistress in her current incarnation if Makoto supposedly an innocent child when she did the deed. In response to this, I'd say that Makoto's original design for "Sadistress" in her doodling was probably rather tame. And then, as Kiri got meaner/more twisted, Sadistress evolved into the dominatrix with the famously gigantic boobs we know and love (?). Antecedent left unclear on purpose. XD
2. Just a thought on Makoto's Power Perfect doodles... You know how Makoto's signature is always on her drawings? Maybe the powers only activate when Makoto signs her name? Here's an example: Kiri's transformation into "Sadistress" happened when Makoto signed her name on the drawing. The element of him "detransforming" when he calms down came from Makoto not erasing her signature first. Do you see what I mean?
And now, on an unrelated note... okay, I know I really shouldn't do this, but... MSOB, can you update Shannon's profile picture on the site with this picture?: http://xs117.xs.to/xs117/07293/ShannonProfile.png The shading is probably off as always, but the shape is right. There's no need to do it right away, but... Dang if I'm not subtle like a brick.
Ahih=makyan; Avatar art by LunaOfWater on DeviantArt.
Okay, this shouldn't be a double post, but I'm doing this to make it easier for when I work on my addition to Kiri/Sadi's profile... ON MY DS LITE BROWSER. XDDDD Just disregard this till I say it's finished, m'kay? (Fun note: Did you know the DS browser can FREEZE? Dang if this isn't unwieldy.)
Spoiler: Makoto/Kiri history for profile.
For some reason, this personality seemed rather feminine to him, possibly due to its imagined mannerisms… but he shrugged and went through with it anyway, and Sadistress was born. [Needs moar Hobocop.] She didn’t physically manifest at first, but as Kirihito’s inner evil became more and more concentrated, she began to break through more and more frequently. The day she finally became a physical manifestation was the day Kirihito’s life changed forever…
Makoto had recently been transferred from her world to the normal world. However, the bizarre circumstances of her appearance actually got her charged with murder. Kirihito ended up being the lawyer who would defend her in that case. Before the trial, he gave his usual lecture about how important it was for her to testify correctly… But Makoto was too wrapped up in her drawing to even bother listening to him. With every “No, I don’t understand, Mr. Garyuu” and “What does that mean, Mr. Garyuu?” Kirihito felt his patience growing thinner and thinner. The innocence and ignorance of the child in front of him grated on his nerves, especially considering that he was nursing emotional wounds that Makoto didn’t even know existed. [Can’t mention Hobocop till he’s implemented. Is this too metaphorical? Also, I don't think I capture the "chafing innocence" well enough.] Not knowing of jealousy, rage, or even the risk of death, he could feel himself going over the edge, even with his plastered smile… when he reached the end of his lecture and asked if Makoto finally understood anything, her blank stare finally blew the fuse. He began to rant, scaring Makoto even further into her drawing: none other than Kirihito as a woman. She quickly signed her name as was her custom, and… Kiri transformed. He continued to rant for a little while longer until he noticed his sudden change, at which he became even more furious… and had to cut himself off when Makoto started bawling and frantically erasing her picture. [The style seems a touch redundant right now…] Kiri had no choice but to calm down for the poor girl, and when he finally did, she got to erasing her signature… and he transformed back. Thankfully, Makoto testified "correctly," and was acquitted.
Later that day, while visiting an old friend [Hobocop- but I would prefer to have his connection to Kiri drafted out before Kiri's profile makes any reference to him], Kiri could feel those uncomfortable dregs of envy and hatred swirling inside him... when suddenly he got into an argument with this friend and transformed into the woman from before until his negative energy drained away. When this happened several more times, Kirihito put two and two together: whenever his negative impulses reached a peak, he would transform into Makoto's creation made in innocence... something he resented and would resent for years to come. Were he to ever meet her again, he would let her creation out and teach her a lesson about the nature of evil... [Is that out of place? His grudge should be mentioned at some point.]The only way out of this he saw was to find someone who wouldn't activate his negative impulses, and would be able to handle his new form when she came out.
Kirihito found what he thought was his answer in his new student: trainee lawyer Housuke Odoroki. Kirihito thought that training someone would provide enough positive energy to keep Sadistress down at least till he got home, and he had faith that Housuke would be strong enough to take Sadistress's bullying should she appear- or at least satisfy her enough to prevent a worst-case scenario. Unfortunately, Odoroki proved inept at all of those tasks. Sadistress actually began to go out of control from the sheer INFLUX of negative energy from Kirihito's impatience and envy of Housuke's fresh, eager attitude. As Kiri became more twisted with negative energy, the rather tame gentlewoman Makoto had drawn slowly began to warp and pervert into her current form... Kirihito dubbed her Sadistress for her new mannerisms and appearance. With the appearance of Sadistress, any hopes of Housuke helping Kirihito cope with his problems were shot... especially with Housuke turning into Apollo Justice to stop Sadi's rampages. These rampages came from Housuke not letting Sadistress release her energy on him. Their partnership was over.
While he was tutoring Housuke, Kirihito met Shannon Vane. After a little mental prodding from Sadistress, he introduced himself to her... and the foundation for what was probably Kirihito's most important relationship was laid. [Needs more?] As their courtship progressed, he found that Shannon affected him in more ways than making Sadistress speak to him as his libido. [Oh, come on, was that really necessary? XD] The way Shannon reciprocated his affection soothed him- and from this he realized he might have finally found a "cure" for Sadistress in Shannon's love. Because of this, he fell so in love with her that all the positives of staying with her seemed to far outweigh anything else. Not long after this realization, Kirihito proposed to Shannon, and she readily accepted. However, he had not yet told her about Sadistress...
All of Kirihito's beautiful plans went to pieces when he came home as Sadistress after Shannon had just come looking for him. Not only did Shannon find out sooner than planned, but neither side was prepared for the sudden turn of events. Shannon decided that as much as she loved Kirihito, she couldn't marry a man who would transform into "THAT" on a mood swing- she just wasn't ready to help him cope with his issues. With that, Shannon gave Kirihito her engagement ring and left him to stew in his grief... And left Sadistress to swell in fury at another failure, amplified by how close success was.
[Next: Does this need time markers? ie. "X years before Super Makoto..."]
If this is incoherent, it's because portions were written when I was supposed to be sleeping. [BUT YOU DIDN'T HEAR THAT M'KAY]
[REMINDER TO SELF: in light of these new facts, Shannon's profile may need a bit of revising. Should Shannon's job be mentioned in her profile like Kiri's is in his? Also, this may need to be rewritten to be more profile and less story. AND WHY IS THIS THING SO DAMN LONG GEEZ]
This is done, except for the bits on Hobocop that still need to be thought up. Please help me fix this X_X
Ahih=makyan; Avatar art by LunaOfWater on DeviantArt.
Last edited by Sami-Fire on Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Well, my first idea for Hobocop and Sadistress' rivalry would be either of them trying to cull Odoroki's favor. Phoenix wants to know more about the Bolginia Incident and somehow discovers that Odoroki is of Bolginian descent - perhaps he helps Odoroki discover his APOLLO JUSTICE powers?
Ugh, my next bit for the website is making an art page... but I already have 122 files to sort and upload (112 of them are paintchat bits!), and no way to conveniently display them. I'll have to look into gallery scripts.
The only thing that puzzles me on that point is... why does each side want Odoroki's favor, and what reason is there to fight over it? It seems a bit like they'd be acting a bit like catty 16-year-old schoolgirls in this situation, but I might just be interpreting it backwards.
I was thinking that it would be something more along the lines of "Hobocop has/does/is something that strikes a nerve with Kiri and activates the foundation for Sadistress*." Well, yeah, that's incredibly vague, but I'm not sure how the two could really connect... Hobocop was kicked off the team/force/squad/ohgodI'mmessingupmyterminology right after the incident, right? It would probably have to happen during Hobocop's "downtime."
Ahih=makyan; Avatar art by LunaOfWater on DeviantArt.
Yeah, after the incident and the resulting tribunal, Phoenix will still be wondering what the heck happened, exactly. For the most part, he gets the "good boy" treatment from his higher-ups, lots of pats on the back, and then is shoved out into the life of a normal citizen and left to rot. The ones in charge, however, underestimated his tenacity, and even with his injuries and lack of resources Phoenix manages to investigate the incident on his own... with the help of Bolginian intel.
Somehow, he might come into contact with Yuumi/Lamiroir, or learn something about her to connect her to Odoroki, who he tracks down to his own city. Maybe something about his Spartan lineage that could help Hobocop with his quest? Or perhaps he promised Lamiroir to "awaken" Apollo Justice? Is this how he discovers and adopts Minuki?
Or does Minuki live with Odoroki? (Live-in girl, and they don't know they're related XD RUH ROH)
As for Sadi, she is, by nature, somewhat petty in her behavior. She sees Odoroki as nothing more than a coping mechanism, someone to just mentor and sweet-talk to, and beat the crap out of if necessary. That's the thing that distinguishes Odoroki from Shannon; with Shannon, the feeling of dependence and personal appreciation is more mutual.
Okay, maybe I've just accidentally beaten my brain to a pulp, but... how does that involve Kiri/Sadi? X_X
@Sadi and 'Doki: Yeah, that's more or less it. Sadi knows that Kiri's more or less only reason for having Odoroki around is to flush out some negative energy- and this backfires so bad that Sadistress morphs into her current form from the the influx of negative energy (Kiri is really incredibly nettled by Odoroki). It's not till this point that she actively starts using very receptive (...that's not the word I'm looking for, but I'll leave it there anyway) people as "plush toys." However, there must be something about Shannon that makes both sides of Kiri love her (as opposed to only Kiri being friendly to Housuke), something that makes Sadi view her as more than a "plush toy..." Perhaps it's because after the reconciliation, Shannon doesn't try to run from Sadistress- rather, she stands and lets Sadi birch about whatever and allows her to blow off the steam that she almost constantly needs to blow off for her gratification. ...Is it just me, or does this reason suck? It just doesn't seem to fit for some reason... Sadistress is one of those people who, even though she enjoys watching people scream and run from her, is humored a bit more by people who are willing to "play" with her (maybe because she knows she can do as she please with those people and not get any guff about it? Or maybe it's more gratifying for her because the release of energy is faster when people stick around and take it/help her release it than when they run off). If this sucks, it's probably for the same reason as the other thing. She has one "plush toy" of both kinds: Apollo for the former, Shannon for the latter.
The bit of history I was writing should be done by later today (with a few little things I'll need help on), but I can't quite say it's finished till we get the connection with Hobocop done- then I might be able to "re-write" Kiri's history for his profile. However, I have NO idea why longhistory is so friggin' looooooooong. I'm gonna need some help cutting it down... >>;
Update: It is done, help me fix please~
Ahih=makyan; Avatar art by LunaOfWater on DeviantArt.
Thought this might be relevent to the thread's interest. Over on 2ch (well, technically pinkchannel) they have a thread entitled "If GS4's Garyuu Kirihito was a woman", and while I was perusing it, I noticed they also had an oekaki imageboard.
Note that this board contains sexually graphic images as well as regular ones. Link here.
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