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Re: GS6 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Spoiler:
Since I know 5 has weak ties to the rest of the series,
I want to return to the plot points established by Ace Attorney 4.

I would like it to wrap up Apollo's story and to do that, I'd like to follow similar themes to Ace Attorney 3's arc-ending elements. Perhaps a case that requires you to revisit a case Kristoph worked on (similar to revisiting Mia's career in 3) and having to talk to him in prison (as Apollo this time) in order to get the necessary details.

The final case should wrap up the loose ends and finish off Apollo's arc from 4 with a good amount of impact.
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Last edited by Gyakuten$aiban on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yes. More Apollo.
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Not even finished DD but I can already declare some changes I'd like made:

- Bring back 3-day cases
- Let us examine anywhere. I know the changes that were made were done so that the investigation segments would drag on less but you could still make it clear when a room was full of clues and important to examine. But the banter during pointless investigations was one of the crucial things that gave the old games some character and made the series what it is.
- Lets have some appearances from Ema, Gumshoe, Maya and maybe even Kay? Wouldn't want any pointless cameos, but I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to get them in and it not be pointless!
- Get back to the loose ends from AJ:AA
- Less Athena. Nothing against her but she really hogs the limelight. Just make it a bit more balanced.
- More Phoenix

I think the series really needs Shu Takumi back. The writing just lacks a certain charm and wit without him.
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In no particular order...

- Phoenix and Iris finally reunite and rekindle their romance.

- Aura Blackquill takes on a young apprentice whose last name starts with "W" and ends with "iley".

- Murder at a fairy tale theme park. Witnesses include the Brick House Pig, Red Riding Hood, Papa Bear and Snow White.

- A gun-crazy detective whose "investigation" method is "Shoot first, then shoot some more!". He has an itchy trigger finger and always carries enough firepower to start a small war.

- Athena and Trucy get in a comical face-pulling fight over who gets to be the assistant in Apollo's case.

- For the tutorial case, circumstances force Trucy to impersonate Apollo.
Truth will come to light.

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SwordKing wrote:
- A gun-crazy detective whose "investigation" method is "Shoot first, then shoot some more!". He has an itchy trigger finger and always carries enough firepower to start a small war.

I sure hope this guy knows when and how to fire warning shots. It kind of makes things moot if the suspect is killed before innocence or guilt can be determined. And if he's a bad marksman, that's even worse. What if he accidentally hits a passing bicyclist who hits a car, which hits another car, which hits a bus, which hits the curb and kills several pedestrians and passengers? I don't think the police department would want to pay for those charges.

Speaking of which, it would make an interesting case to feature a defendant who is killed before, during, or just after a trial. It would be even more interesting if whoever is suspected and detained didn't kill the victim, but killed someone else somehow related to the victim.

How and why do I come up with such zany murder scenarios? I swear I'm not bloodthirsty... unless pig blood counts.
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Speaking of which, it would make an interesting case to feature a defendant who is killed before, during, or just after a trial. It would be even more interesting if whoever is suspected and detained didn't kill the victim, but killed someone else somehow related to the victim.

How and why do I come up with such zany murder scenarios? I swear I'm not bloodthirsty... unless pig blood counts.


I don't think it was the defendant, but one of the earlier episodes of the Detective Conan live action drama series (not the specials, the series) had something similar, with Kisaki Eri basically shooting down a witness with her finger gun ^^' The series itself is absolutely awful though, so watch at your own risk.

I played a bit of GS4 again some time ago, and I would love to see those '3D' (with depth) reconstruction scenes again! They could do so much with that, making more spatial interesting mysteries. I had actually forgotten about them completely.

(And if you think that can't be interesting, you should read Arisugawa Alice's Kotou Puzzle. The way it shows how to develop a puzzle in dimensions is fantastic. That, and lthe ogic that leads to the murderer is one of the best things ever in the history of global detective fiction).
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With the risk of sounding incredibly whiny and repetitive, I'll have to vote for less Athena. Her entire character and omnipresence are my main complaints about Dual Destinies. In fact, I don't think I ever want to see her again, but I could stand her if she stopped being constantly praised and in the limelight.

More of support Phoenix, less of nervous Phoenix when in court. He should be the ultimate badass at this point, and it's a wonder people don't just give up whenever he takes on a case. He was handled perfectly outside of court in Dual Destinies, and he was even more jittery than Athena (surprise surprise) when it was his turn to step up.

More Apollo, he was constantly overshadowed by Athena. While I appreciate the attempt at giving him a backstory, it was not nearly enough. He should be made aware of his relation to Trucy and Thalassa, and I loved the idea soemone here had of revisiting one of Kristoph's old cases with Apollo.

Villains with proper motives.

Female murderers.

While I don't mind flashback cases, it felt unnecessary and confusing here.

I hope they keep the thought route and the good balance between the magamata and the bracelet. I loved the mood matrix, but it shouldn't be present in every trial - why not deal with it outside of court, too, to mix things up? Speaking of keeping things, I must confess I did enjoy the light sex jokes.

More Trucy - I'm not her biggest fan, but she's Phoenix daughter and Apollo's sister...she deserves some attention and her own character.

Less cameos like Klavier and more cameos like Edgeworth, even if his arrival was a bit sudden. (Is it just me, or did his animations outside of court look really stale?). I wouldn't mind seeing both Prosecutor Weeaboo and Juniper next game either.

Edit: How about letting the prosecutor have a sidekick? Honestly, the idea of going up against Edgeworth, aided by Blackquill, appeals to me.
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I agree with practically anything there.
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Thane wrote:
Edit: How about letting the prosecutor have a sidekick? Honestly, the idea of going up against Edgeworth, aided by Blackquill, appeals to me.

What? Have you already forgotten about Taka? He's more than a pet, you know. Besides, with all that extra slamming, the desk would break before any bomb could manage.

Okay, that's silly - the bomb joke, not Taka. Edgeworth would look odd with an assistant by his side, though. The only time he did have someone next to him at the bench was Franziska (GK2), but she wasn't there to help him anyway. I doubt Blacky would want to idle around next to his boss when his boss can handle everything on his own. He'd be out on a stroll before the trial gets anywhere.
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Thane wrote:
Edit: How about letting the prosecutor have a sidekick? Honestly, the idea of going up against Edgeworth, aided by Blackquill, appeals to me.

What? Have you already forgotten about Taka? He's more than a pet, you know. Besides, with all that extra slamming, the desk would break before any bomb could manage.

Okay, that's silly - the bomb joke, not Taka. Edgeworth would look odd with an assistant by his side, though. The only time he did have someone next to him at the bench was Franziska (GK2), but she wasn't there to help him anyway. I doubt Blacky would want to idle around next to his boss when his boss can handle everything on his own. He'd be out on a stroll before the trial gets anywhere.


Since you only responded to this I assume you agree with everything else I've said

Touché, I actually did forget about Taka (why not just name it Hawky or something? Sokka would approve). Still, as long as it's not just another genius young prosecutor in the making, I think it'd be nice to go up against two at a time.

Oh I know, I just think it'd be an intense trial. Seeing Edgeworth in court again was nice, and I'd like Blackquill to make another appearance 's all.
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I doubt that Capcom will somehow make the game return to its roots. It's highly probable that Apollo and Trucy will never know about their blood relation. I don't remember right now but someone from the Capcom team said something about GS5 being focused on attracting new players, not pleasing the old ones.
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dangerousoffender wrote:
I doubt that Capcom will somehow make the game return to its roots. It's highly probable that Apollo and Trucy will never know about their blood relation. I don't remember right now but someone from the Capcom team said something about GS5 being focused on attracting new players, not pleasing the old ones.


That doesn't necessarily mean that GS6 will also be the same way though. Think about it this way, JFA didn't necessarily follow up on a lot of storylines from AA. I mean, sure it did follow up on Edgeworth's return, but it mostly focused on Phoenix's search for what it meant to be a lawyer. T&T, on the other hand, felt more like a proper follow up as it dealt with the Fey family as well offering a closure to the disappearance of Misty Fey. Now parallel that with the recent games. GS4 introduced a new protagonist with his own set of storylines, much like the first game did. GS5, on the other hand, went with a different story and even somewhat parallels JFA with focusing on a defense attorney's search for the truth (this time, it's Apollo), which could even be paralleled with Phoenix's searching for what it truly means to be a lawyer. Following that trend and the possibility that GS4, GS5, and GS6 may represent a trilogy, it's not illogical that GS6 may feature some closure for the storylines that started in GS4.

Also, while you are right that Capcom focused more on attracting new players with GS5. What happens if they succeeded? There's a big chance that those players may go back through the older games. Once they get to GS4, they're obviously going to find out that Apollo and Trucy are related and most likely they, too, will wonder why GS5 never resolved that storyline. That supports my hope that GS6 may go back to focusing more on Apollo and finally get some closure to his relationship with Trucy.

This is what I hope though. I just really hope Capcom isn't stupid enough to just leave a plotline like that without any sort of resolution.
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Perhaps a sequence where Apollo and Klavier end up as investigative partners would be a neat touch, so they can riff on each other outside the courtroom.

Wouldn't have to be a whole case but part of a case where they work together.

EDIT: I suddenly have a dark chill up my spine that I said something that might have happened in AA5. Don't judge me.
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^ Now you've given me a dark chill down my spine. What if something like that happens again in GS6?

Ash wrote:
(And if you think that can't be interesting, you should read Arisugawa Alice's Kotou Puzzle. The way it shows how to develop a puzzle in dimensions is fantastic. That, and lthe ogic that leads to the murderer is one of the best things ever in the history of global detective fiction).

Holy heck, that is brilliant logic. Arriving upon the correct conclusion through a single piece of evidence alone. Either it's an incriminating as heck piece or this man is a mad genius... I figure it's the latter. (I checked your blog entry on it.)

Thane wrote:
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
What? Have you already forgotten about Taka? He's more than a pet, you know. Besides, with all that extra slamming, the desk would break before any bomb could manage.

Okay, that's silly - the bomb joke, not Taka. Edgeworth would look odd with an assistant by his side, though. The only time he did have someone next to him at the bench was Franziska (GK2), but she wasn't there to help him anyway. I doubt Blacky would want to idle around next to his boss when his boss can handle everything on his own. He'd be out on a stroll before the trial gets anywhere.


Since you only responded to this I assume you agree with everything else I've said

Touché, I actually did forget about Taka (why not just name it Hawky or something? Sokka would approve). Still, as long as it's not just another genius young prosecutor in the making, I think it'd be nice to go up against two at a time.

Oh I know, I just think it'd be an intense trial. Seeing Edgeworth in court again was nice, and I'd like Blackquill to make another appearance 's all.

Don't worry, Athy will most likely get booted off to the side by the next title; not "off" as in "offing someone", of course. Blacky's here to stay, and so is his mentor (at least in my head-canon) Edgey. As for Klav...... eh, I guess.

No one can best Sokka's amazing naming skills. Plus, Ms. Janet Hsu said so herself in a blog entry that Blacky can't name things for his life. (There was supposedly a scrapped concept involving Taka's name, but no one will ever know now.)
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Re: GS6 IdeasTopic%20Title
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Thane wrote:
Female murderers.

Thank you, thought I was solo /w that one. I for the life of me can't figure out why they literally eliminated them with DD. I know about "realism" /w society statistics, but it just felt so...rigid that way.
Spoiler: T&T
Plus I can only imagine what the awesome 3-d animators would've done with a Dhalia Hawthorne style breakdown. :gant:


As for my other ideas (well..more like wants, ha):
If Edgeworth returns again...
Spoiler: T&T Spoilers
and there's a case where you play as him again, have some GK mechanics during Investigation.


New female prosecutor.

Dual audio for goodness sake if it can fit on the cart.

Audio test unlockable. ;-)

I liked Athena (yes I truly did) and Blackquill, bring 'em back, yay continuity.

Still have Apollo back (so happy he was back in DD and actually quite involved throughout the whole thing). Again yay continuity.

Spoiler: DD Ending/Case 4 and 5 spoilers
Perhaps inevitable after that letter and what Pearl said but, have Maya return for at least a case.


Another jail setting for a case, loved that in GK2, room for some epic cameos relevant to Nick too.

Loved DD but looking forward to GS6 being their "now we're getting the hang of the courtroom" one.[/list]
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Ash wrote:
(And if you think that can't be interesting, you should read Arisugawa Alice's Kotou Puzzle. The way it shows how to develop a puzzle in dimensions is fantastic. That, and lthe ogic that leads to the murderer is one of the best things ever in the history of global detective fiction).

Holy heck, that is brilliant logic. Arriving upon the correct conclusion through a single piece of evidence alone. Either it's an incriminating as heck piece or this man is a mad genius... I figure it's the latter. (I checked your blog entry on it.)


Arisugawa Alice is a tricky writer. He writes maybe seven mediocre ~ amusing Writer Alice novels, and just as you start to begin to forget about him because of that, he publishes a new (awesome) Student Alice novel, which reminds you he can indeed write fantastic stuff. Takumi Shuu is a fan too by the way, Bridge to the Turnabout for example borrows a lot from Soutou no Akuma.

Of course, I don't really think that GS needs to borrow much more (in regards to setting) from Arisugawa at the moment. Although... I am reading Jooukoku no Shiro at the moment, which features new religions worshipping aliens and such, a stolen security camera tape which was aimed at the spot an alien should appear and the cast being held by the new religion because they want to solve a murder themselves... I wouldn't mind a bit of that in GS

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TheIdioteque wrote:
dangerousoffender wrote:
I doubt that Capcom will somehow make the game return to its roots. It's highly probable that Apollo and Trucy will never know about their blood relation. I don't remember right now but someone from the Capcom team said something about GS5 being focused on attracting new players, not pleasing the old ones.


That doesn't necessarily mean that GS6 will also be the same way though. Think about it this way, JFA didn't necessarily follow up on a lot of storylines from AA. I mean, sure it did follow up on Edgeworth's return, but it mostly focused on Phoenix's search for what it meant to be a lawyer. T&T, on the other hand, felt more like a proper follow up as it dealt with the Fey family as well offering a closure to the disappearance of Misty Fey. Now parallel that with the recent games. GS4 introduced a new protagonist with his own set of storylines, much like the first game did. GS5, on the other hand, went with a different story and even somewhat parallels JFA with focusing on a defense attorney's search for the truth (this time, it's Apollo), which could even be paralleled with Phoenix's searching for what it truly means to be a lawyer. Following that trend and the possibility that GS4, GS5, and GS6 may represent a trilogy, it's not illogical that GS6 may feature some closure for the storylines that started in GS4.

Also, while you are right that Capcom focused more on attracting new players with GS5. What happens if they succeeded? There's a big chance that those players may go back through the older games. Once they get to GS4, they're obviously going to find out that Apollo and Trucy are related and most likely they, too, will wonder why GS5 never resolved that storyline. That supports my hope that GS6 may go back to focusing more on Apollo and finally get some closure to his relationship with Trucy.

This is what I hope though. I just really hope Capcom isn't stupid enough to just leave a plotline like that without any sort of resolution.


For your first argument, I don't think that line of logic is valid. According to my observations, the first trilogy was carefully planned by Shu Takumi with beginning, middle and end, but GS4 didn't have a carefully planned sequel -- GS5 was only announced six years after GS4. There's nothing pointing that GS4, GS5 and GS6 are going to be a trilogy nor that Capcom is planning to follow the same pattern of the first trilogy in the next titles.

However, I must admit that your last argument makes sense. A visual-novel is nothing without a good story and the players tend to search for the origin of the series in the first titles, especially now, when GS1, GS2 and GS3 were released for the iOS. Trucy and Apollo's blood relation is something vital in the plot, Capcom can't just ignore that.
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dangerousoffender wrote:
For your first argument, I don't think that line of logic is valid. According to my observations, the first trilogy was carefully planned by Shu Takumi with beginning, middle and end


It wasn't. Takumi himself has stated that GS1 was produced as just a one-shot game: because of that he basically gave the game everything he had. Only after finishing the game he was told GS2 was greenlit :P And I remember him stating the same for GS3 (maybe his superiors should let him know these things sooner...)
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That's odd, since GS2 felt like less of an end, and more of an intermission. There were even hints laid across the game - Morgan's revenge, Franziska's return - that would work better as prompts for a later game. (And then somehow, they forgot about the card that Franzy kept with her on her return flight. It wasn't mentioned ever again until GS5.)

As for GS5, it certainly feels like it ends on an intermission. It's a proper conclusion to this collection of cases, yes, but Edgey just has to lead in with "future developments" in the credits, and he's going to make Nick his slave again. There's no way Capcom doesn't expect a GS6 coming. Yet, the likelihood of 6 cleaning up the plot holes of 4 is pretty low, as the writers will more likely stick with what GS5 has led into instead. That is, unless the lack of direct continuity between GS4 and 5 is intentional, if only to match with the pattern set by GS1 and 2.

GS5 honestly did try to go back to its roots, but it might have ended up just "imitating" a lot of things from the trilogy, rather than form a unique tribute. It's like an experimental release; prep up the fans and get their inputs before we move on with the next title.
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The whole 'trying to bring in new players by ignoring continuity' is a policy I'll never understand. It also makes Thalassa look like a total jerk - the years go by and she's probably on a beach somewhere, having forgotten all about her kids.

From one thing to another, one thing I'd love to see in the game is Apollo (or Athena if she insists on sticking around) losing a case. It's just an idea, and I don't think it'll ever be implemented, but I think there's a lot of potential to it. I don't know if the client should actually be guilty or not, but seeing as we already have a case where we defend someone who hired an assassin, I'd prefer it if Apollo just...failed, for one reason or another. It'd also give Phoenix a great opportunity to swoop down and drop some wisdom bombs.

I'd also love it if the big bad à la Kristoph of the game managed to get away in an early case, and you spend the rest of the game trying to bring him to justice. In fact, those two ideas go along rather nicely...
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-More Trucy. Her interactions with Apollo were actually one of the things I liked about AA4 and to see her standing by the sidelines in AA5 was pretty sad.

-I would like to see a case where Phoenix/Athena and Apollo/Trucy split up to solve two different cases at the same time and then somehow figure out that they're related.

-To fully ensure that the series takes a darker turn. I call for the death of a character that we all hold near and dear to our hearts, one that has been there since the beginning........ Charley.

-The return of Ema Skye and "scientific investigations". More preferably, with features that will get used from case to case instead of one time only.

-Less shoehorned cameos. Though DD wasn't as bad with them as the Investigations series, the two major ones near the end felt a bit unnecessary (though the cutscene accompanying one had me freaking out like a shameless fanboy even if I knew it was coming).

-Expansion on the psychology system. This was honestly one of my favorite parts of DD and it could probably be even better if they expanded upon it in some way (version 2.0 perhaps?).

-Another one...
Spoiler: Case 5 spoilers
I felt like a hostage situation like in case 5 would've been an interesting way to raise the stakes (kind of like 2-4), but sadly, not much came of it.

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Ash wrote:
It wasn't. Takumi himself has stated that GS1 was produced as just a one-shot game: because of that he basically gave the game everything he had. Only after finishing the game he was told GS2 was greenlit :P And I remember him stating the same for GS3 (maybe his superiors should let him know these things sooner...)


I didn't know about this one. That Mia talk "Give Phoenix more 3 years" since the beginning of the first game made me honestly think that the series was always meant to be a trilogy...

Thane wrote:
The whole 'trying to bring in new players by ignoring continuity' is a policy I'll never understand. It also makes Thalassa look like a total jerk - the years go by and she's probably on a beach somewhere, having forgotten all about her kids.


I saw people complaining that Trucy didn't appear much in GS5... I wonder if that unsolved plot is the reason why they are avoiding her.
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Thane wrote:
The whole 'trying to bring in new players by ignoring continuity' is a policy I'll never understand. It also makes Thalassa look like a total jerk - the years go by and she's probably on a beach somewhere, having forgotten all about her kids.

I miss hiimdaisy. She could have continued the tradition... the sequel to "Zak is a Jerk": "Thalassa is a Jerk Too".

Javadoze wrote:
-To fully ensure that the series takes a darker turn. I call for the death of a character that we all hold near and dear to our hearts, one that has been there since the beginning........ Charley.

Nooooooo, not Charleeeeey! You are pure evil. EVIL!

...Why do I imagine Kristoph breaking out of prison just to throw poison into Charley's pot? Plant murder is a serious charge, more so than perjury! (Then the Wright Anything Agency will hold a prestigious funeral for our precious mascot and time lord.)
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dangerousoffender wrote:
I didn't know about this one. That Mia talk "Give Phoenix more 3 years" since the beginning of the first game made me honestly think that the series was always meant to be a trilogy...


That was Lana, right? So that was written after the original trilogy anyway, and it is actually a very ambiguous line. If Takumi hadn't started working on GS4 yet, you might also interpret it that after GS3, Nick really proved himself as a lawyer an the successor of Mia. Had he already started working on GS4, you can interpret it as a reference to his fall (as many do). Hindsight kinda tricks you into reading things as you want to read them at times.
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You know, all of the characters are good and all. (I know people don't like how everything goes around Athena -even though Phoenix had the most cases-

That aside, what I really want is...
Spoiler: 5-5
1: The organization that was pursuing the Phantom and almost assassinated him. (They maybe ARE evil and maybe there's a case concerning that matter.)

2: The Phantom's true Identity. (I just wanna see his true face, okay?)

3: I think Pearl mentioned that Maya will be visiting soon, so that's that.

4: The case of Fulbright's death. (The Phantom killed him, I know. However, what if the true culprit wasn't the phantom?)

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Ash wrote:
dangerousoffender wrote:
I didn't know about this one. That Mia talk "Give Phoenix more 3 years" since the beginning of the first game made me honestly think that the series was always meant to be a trilogy...


That was Lana, right? So that was written after the original trilogy anyway, and it is actually a very ambiguous line. If Takumi hadn't started working on GS4 yet, you might also interpret it that after GS3, Nick really proved himself as a lawyer an the successor of Mia. Had he already started working on GS4, you can interpret it as a reference to his fall (as many do). Hindsight kinda tricks you into reading things as you want to read them at times.

Nnno. Mia described to Maya how Nick's first trial went, and when Maya asked if he could be her attorney if she needed one, Mia told her to wait 3 more years (Turnabout Sisters, talking to Maya in detention). This must be one huge coincidence, then.


What I really want is that one masked guy that was meant to be in PLvsAA. That was a brilliant character design. Why can't we have more people with masks? We wouldn't even know who we're questioning! It'd be confusing as heck, but delicious!

:udgey: There sure seem to be a lot more people with masks or covering their faces testifying these days. I might just forget who is who.
:nick-sweat: (Wouldn't it be better that you go into retirement soon, Your Honor?)

Well, there is that problem...
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But there was that someone with a mask testifying... :3

They could come up with an Inugami Sukekiyo-esque character. As long there's a good reason for wearing a mask (like being injured in the war...), you could have a masked person in court, and yet still play with the thought of imposters (or not).

And then he ends up dead with his legs sticking out of a lake...
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Ash wrote:
But there was that someone with a mask testifying... :3

They could come up with an Inugami Sukekiyo-esque character. As long there's a good reason for wearing a mask (like being injured in the war...), you could have a masked person in court, and yet still play with the thought of imposters (or not).

And then he ends up dead with his legs sticking out of a lake...

Wait, what? Wait... WHAT?
Spoiler: GS5-5 & PLvsAA concept art
The Phantom was from Labyrinth City, as a masked salesman of masks!? ...Well, I dunno if he was actually a salesman, but the way he looked, swinging open his coat with a bunch of masks hanging there reminded me of that ol' stereotype of shady salesmen, sort of.

Wow, it actually explains where he got the Nick mask. He always had it with him, just in case he needed to become an evil Phoenix Wright.


What's with that picture of the legs? It makes him look like a murder victim. :P

Hm, that's a fun idea: an unidentifiable victim, and yet, a primary suspect is dug out anyway. Then, the witnesses can have masks too... for various reasons. Yes, each one has a different reason for the mask.
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
What's with that picture of the legs? It makes him look like a murder victim. :P


Well, that is because he ends up as one. Sukekiyo has the honor of starring as the murder victim in the most memorable scene of the film that started the film studio Kadokawa Pictures ;P
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Seeing as Phoenix and
Spoiler:
Athena
have been suspected of murder, but Apollo hasn't, I'd like to see him accused of murdering someone, set up by Kristoph Gavin (who has broken out of prison) in revenge of Apollo "betraying" him in 4-1.
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Copied from the Athena's Character Thread cause it fits here
Spoiler: 5-5 Crack Theory that will be explained in 6
Athena is actually an android, an ultimate prototype designed and built by Metis Cykes. She is the final product of the 'emotion recognition' technology that was programmed into Ponco and Clonco. When her mother was killed Athena was shipped by the government (her sponsors and owners) across to Europe (or whatever secret facility they had) for further research and programming. Her body was periodically updated and they spent years perfecting her programming. It was at this point they added information about Analytical Psychology and Lawyering to her databanks and as such they fabricated degrees accordingly so she was fully qualified in both fields. This ties in with a governmental plan to push 'analytical psychology' into the courts (much like Phoenix tried with the Jurist system) because they knew it would be the only way to crack 'the Phantom' who had been stalking around their country due to the Psychological profile composed by Metis.

This explains
- How Athena, a young 18 year old girl can toss trained police officers with ease (Self-defence programming, artificial exoskeleton, after all with the technology involved and the death of the creator she is one of a kind).
- How Athena mastered so much in such a short degree of time.
- The source of Athena's hearing and empathic abilites.
- The reason for the sudden personality change noted by Juniper (Updates to her programming to make her more suited to the cut-throat world of law and to help her overcome her trauma.)
- The reason why she has such a strange affinity for technology. (Widget is constantly reading Athena's mind and occasionally spits out her thoughts and changes colour to match? Perplexing if it's a biological-technological connection but if it's a wireless connection between machines? That's much more plausible.)
- Possible reason why Athena's 'black psyche locks' existed. (Memory banks that the scientists in Europe had erased however some data was so traumatic it remained in some corrupted form but with Phoenix's suggestions and natural logic circuits Athena pieced them back together.)

Bonus points if the moon rock contained special harmonic properties that allowed the breakthrough in robot technology to occur. So that Athena actually has a 'core' of magic moon rock inside her.


Also it might be an additional reason Aura is so cold to Athena- If she had helped in the construction of Athena then the Government stole her product away and modified her. Or perhaps upon completion she was simply jealous of how Metis doted on Athena, treating her more as her child while Aura always considered her a robot...and we know her opinion on robots.

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Pierre wrote:
Copied from the Athena's Character Thread cause it fits here
Spoiler: 5-5 Crack Theory that will be explained in 6
Athena is actually an android, an ultimate prototype designed and built by Metis Cykes. She is the final product of the 'emotion recognition' technology that was programmed into Ponco and Clonco. When her mother was killed Athena was shipped by the government (her sponsors and owners) across to Europe (or whatever secret facility they had) for further research and programming. Her body was periodically updated and they spent years perfecting her programming. It was at this point they added information about Analytical Psychology and Lawyering to her databanks and as such they fabricated degrees accordingly so she was fully qualified in both fields. This ties in with a governmental plan to push 'analytical psychology' into the courts (much like Phoenix tried with the Jurist system) because they knew it would be the only way to crack 'the Phantom' who had been stalking around their country due to the Psychological profile composed by Metis.

This explains
- How Athena, a young 18 year old girl can toss trained police officers with ease (Self-defence programming, artificial exoskeleton, after all with the technology involved and the death of the creator she is one of a kind).
- How Athena mastered so much in such a short degree of time.
- The source of Athena's hearing and empathic abilites.
- The reason for the sudden personality change noted by Juniper (Updates to her programming to make her more suited to the cut-throat world of law and to help her overcome her trauma.)
- The reason why she has such a strange affinity for technology. (Widget is constantly reading Athena's mind and occasionally spits out her thoughts and changes colour to match? Perplexing if it's a biological-technological connection but if it's a wireless connection between machines? That's much more plausible.)
- Possible reason why Athena's 'black psyche locks' existed. (Memory banks that the scientists in Europe had erased however some data was so traumatic it remained in some corrupted form but with Phoenix's suggestions and natural logic circuits Athena pieced them back together.)

Bonus points if the moon rock contained special harmonic properties that allowed the breakthrough in robot technology to occur. So that Athena actually has a 'core' of magic moon rock inside her.


Also it might be an additional reason Aura is so cold to Athena- If she had helped in the construction of Athena then the Government stole her product away and modified her. Or perhaps upon completion she was simply jealous of how Metis doted on Athena, treating her more as her child while Aura always considered her a robot...and we know her opinion on robots.

Spoiler:
Hm... If that's true, why would Athena have Widget in the first place? (It reads her emotions/thoughts.) If your theory is right, then Widget wouldn't exist.

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BonnyMono wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Copied from the Athena's Character Thread cause it fits here
Spoiler: 5-5 Crack Theory that will be explained in 6
Athena is actually an android, an ultimate prototype designed and built by Metis Cykes. She is the final product of the 'emotion recognition' technology that was programmed into Ponco and Clonco. When her mother was killed Athena was shipped by the government (her sponsors and owners) across to Europe (or whatever secret facility they had) for further research and programming. Her body was periodically updated and they spent years perfecting her programming. It was at this point they added information about Analytical Psychology and Lawyering to her databanks and as such they fabricated degrees accordingly so she was fully qualified in both fields. This ties in with a governmental plan to push 'analytical psychology' into the courts (much like Phoenix tried with the Jurist system) because they knew it would be the only way to crack 'the Phantom' who had been stalking around their country due to the Psychological profile composed by Metis.

This explains
- How Athena, a young 18 year old girl can toss trained police officers with ease (Self-defence programming, artificial exoskeleton, after all with the technology involved and the death of the creator she is one of a kind).
- How Athena mastered so much in such a short degree of time.
- The source of Athena's hearing and empathic abilites.
- The reason for the sudden personality change noted by Juniper (Updates to her programming to make her more suited to the cut-throat world of law and to help her overcome her trauma.)
- The reason why she has such a strange affinity for technology. (Widget is constantly reading Athena's mind and occasionally spits out her thoughts and changes colour to match? Perplexing if it's a biological-technological connection but if it's a wireless connection between machines? That's much more plausible.)
- Possible reason why Athena's 'black psyche locks' existed. (Memory banks that the scientists in Europe had erased however some data was so traumatic it remained in some corrupted form but with Phoenix's suggestions and natural logic circuits Athena pieced them back together.)

Bonus points if the moon rock contained special harmonic properties that allowed the breakthrough in robot technology to occur. So that Athena actually has a 'core' of magic moon rock inside her.


Also it might be an additional reason Aura is so cold to Athena- If she had helped in the construction of Athena then the Government stole her product away and modified her. Or perhaps upon completion she was simply jealous of how Metis doted on Athena, treating her more as her child while Aura always considered her a robot...and we know her opinion on robots.

Spoiler:
Hm... If that's true, why would Athena have Widget in the first place? (It reads her emotions/thoughts.) If your theory is right, then Widget wouldn't exist.


Why not? Widget functions as a projector for the mood matrix. While the nature and processes about her powers seem vague at best, she typically says she is "updating" the mood matrix. It gives her a way to physically show others the results.

Edit:
Spoiler:
Though if you mean about whether a robot has 'emotions' and 'thoughts' then I explained that. Widget doesn't actually read that, as a mind reading computer is pretty unbelievable. If Athena is an android it's actually just another computer-to-computer link. It's describing emulated emotions and thought processes. As for why? It was designed back when Athena was a shy and reclusive little robot, perhaps it was an attempt to help make Athena's true 'feelings' clear when she couldn't. Perhaps it was an early communication device before Athena had a voice program or something.


Hell they don't give an adequate reason why Widget talks other than 'its an endearing character trait' so why should I? XD
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Last edited by Pierre on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pierre wrote:
BonnyMono wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Copied from the Athena's Character Thread cause it fits here
Spoiler: 5-5 Crack Theory that will be explained in 6
Athena is actually an android, an ultimate prototype designed and built by Metis Cykes. She is the final product of the 'emotion recognition' technology that was programmed into Ponco and Clonco. When her mother was killed Athena was shipped by the government (her sponsors and owners) across to Europe (or whatever secret facility they had) for further research and programming. Her body was periodically updated and they spent years perfecting her programming. It was at this point they added information about Analytical Psychology and Lawyering to her databanks and as such they fabricated degrees accordingly so she was fully qualified in both fields. This ties in with a governmental plan to push 'analytical psychology' into the courts (much like Phoenix tried with the Jurist system) because they knew it would be the only way to crack 'the Phantom' who had been stalking around their country due to the Psychological profile composed by Metis.

This explains
- How Athena, a young 18 year old girl can toss trained police officers with ease (Self-defence programming, artificial exoskeleton, after all with the technology involved and the death of the creator she is one of a kind).
- How Athena mastered so much in such a short degree of time.
- The source of Athena's hearing and empathic abilites.
- The reason for the sudden personality change noted by Juniper (Updates to her programming to make her more suited to the cut-throat world of law and to help her overcome her trauma.)
- The reason why she has such a strange affinity for technology. (Widget is constantly reading Athena's mind and occasionally spits out her thoughts and changes colour to match? Perplexing if it's a biological-technological connection but if it's a wireless connection between machines? That's much more plausible.)
- Possible reason why Athena's 'black psyche locks' existed. (Memory banks that the scientists in Europe had erased however some data was so traumatic it remained in some corrupted form but with Phoenix's suggestions and natural logic circuits Athena pieced them back together.)

Bonus points if the moon rock contained special harmonic properties that allowed the breakthrough in robot technology to occur. So that Athena actually has a 'core' of magic moon rock inside her.


Also it might be an additional reason Aura is so cold to Athena- If she had helped in the construction of Athena then the Government stole her product away and modified her. Or perhaps upon completion she was simply jealous of how Metis doted on Athena, treating her more as her child while Aura always considered her a robot...and we know her opinion on robots.

Spoiler:
Hm... If that's true, why would Athena have Widget in the first place? (It reads her emotions/thoughts.) If your theory is right, then Widget wouldn't exist.


Why not? Widget functions as a projector for the mood matrix. While the nature and processes about her powers seem vague at best, she typically says she is "updating" the mood matrix. It gives her a way to physically show others the results.

I meant, why would a bot need another bot to read its emotions? I don't know about you, but I'm sticking with my magic theory, thank you very much!
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Updated my post Bonny, there's never really any explanation for why Widget talks in the first place.

However it can be attempted to be explained in my theory XD
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Ash wrote:
- A non-recurring final boss! Ever since GS3, we've been seeing these recurring characters who "surprisingly" turn out to be the final boss; it's been enough. I mean, just look at it:
Spoiler: Spoilers for ALL games in the franchise, including VS Layton
Recurring prosecutor (GS3), mentor-turned-murderer-coming-back (GS4), rival assistant (GK1), 'innocent' witness (GK2), recurring prosecutor (Layton), detective (GS5)


Wait, huh? The final boss in Investigations was
Spoiler:
Quercus Alba

remember? He was introduced in Case 5 and wasn't even mentioned beforehand.
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Pierre wrote:
Copied from the Athena's Character Thread cause it fits here
Spoiler: 5-5 Crack Theory that will be explained in 6
Athena is actually an android, an ultimate prototype designed and built by Metis Cykes. She is the final product of the 'emotion recognition' technology that was programmed into Ponco and Clonco. When her mother was killed Athena was shipped by the government (her sponsors and owners) across to Europe (or whatever secret facility they had) for further research and programming. Her body was periodically updated and they spent years perfecting her programming. It was at this point they added information about Analytical Psychology and Lawyering to her databanks and as such they fabricated degrees accordingly so she was fully qualified in both fields. This ties in with a governmental plan to push 'analytical psychology' into the courts (much like Phoenix tried with the Jurist system) because they knew it would be the only way to crack 'the Phantom' who had been stalking around their country due to the Psychological profile composed by Metis.

This explains
- How Athena, a young 18 year old girl can toss trained police officers with ease (Self-defence programming, artificial exoskeleton, after all with the technology involved and the death of the creator she is one of a kind).
- How Athena mastered so much in such a short degree of time.
- The source of Athena's hearing and empathic abilites.
- The reason for the sudden personality change noted by Juniper (Updates to her programming to make her more suited to the cut-throat world of law and to help her overcome her trauma.)
- The reason why she has such a strange affinity for technology. (Widget is constantly reading Athena's mind and occasionally spits out her thoughts and changes colour to match? Perplexing if it's a biological-technological connection but if it's a wireless connection between machines? That's much more plausible.)
- Possible reason why Athena's 'black psyche locks' existed. (Memory banks that the scientists in Europe had erased however some data was so traumatic it remained in some corrupted form but with Phoenix's suggestions and natural logic circuits Athena pieced them back together.)

Bonus points if the moon rock contained special harmonic properties that allowed the breakthrough in robot technology to occur. So that Athena actually has a 'core' of magic moon rock inside her.


Also it might be an additional reason Aura is so cold to Athena- If she had helped in the construction of Athena then the Government stole her product away and modified her. Or perhaps upon completion she was simply jealous of how Metis doted on Athena, treating her more as her child while Aura always considered her a robot...and we know her opinion on robots.

By this line of reasoning, I am now convinced that every new character introduced in this game is a robot or android copy of the original character. Yes, even the victims.

Ash wrote:
- A non-recurring final boss! Ever since GS3, we've been seeing these recurring characters who "surprisingly" turn out to be the final boss; it's been enough. I mean, just look at it:
Spoiler: Spoilers for ALL games in the franchise, including VS Layton
Recurring prosecutor (GS3), mentor-turned-murderer-coming-back (GS4), rival assistant (GK1), 'innocent' witness (GK2), recurring prosecutor (Layton), detective (GS5)

Oh yeah. Now that I've played Layton vs Attorney, that "final boss" isn't the recurring prosecutor.
Spoiler:
The final opponent Nick faces against is Layton himself, the mastermind behind everything is still the Storyteller, and the actual culprit of the past tragedy was Jodora. In this case, there's no actual "final boss" in the traditional sense.

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1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Ash wrote:
- A non-recurring final boss! Ever since GS3, we've been seeing these recurring characters who "surprisingly" turn out to be the final boss; it's been enough. I mean, just look at it:
Spoiler: Spoilers for ALL games in the franchise, including VS Layton
Recurring prosecutor (GS3), mentor-turned-murderer-coming-back (GS4), rival assistant (GK1), 'innocent' witness (GK2), recurring prosecutor (Layton), detective (GS5)


Wait, huh? The final boss in Investigations was
Spoiler:
Quercus Alba

remember? He was introduced in Case 5 and wasn't even mentioned beforehand.

Blast from the past! (The first quote.)

Anyway, each final case has had the criminal be a different role.
1-4: Prosecutor
1-5: Policeman
2-4: Defendant
3-5: Rival
4-4: Mentor
AAI: Witness, Rival Assistant (including Shih-na since she's an accomplice, and the murderer of a different case)
Spoiler: GK2
GK2-5: Recurring witness

Spoiler: DD
5-5: Detective


As far as I can tell, the roles left are... (spoiler tagging because I guess it indirectly gives away GK2/DD)
Spoiler:
-Victim (suicide... or possibly faking their own death)
-Person initially believed to be the victim (they do something to make it seem like the true victim is actually them)
-Judge
-Assistant
-Returning character (from a previous game, not a previous case)
-Multiple criminals (where both are truly the "killer," rather than something like 2-2 or I-5, where one was the killer and one was the accomplice. You'd have to face down both at the same time as the end, I think)
-The playable character
-Animal (I don't think this or the previous one will ever actually happen, though xP)

I think that's exhaustive (can't think of anything else), and since they've done a different role each game, I wouldn't be surprised if one of those 7 (5 if you take out the 2 REALLY improbable ones) ends up being the big bad in GK3/GS6.
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Bad Player wrote:
As far as I can tell, the roles left are... (spoiler tagging because I guess it indirectly gives away GK2/DD)
Spoiler:
-Victim (suicide... or possibly faking their own death)
-Judge
-Assistant
-Returning character (from a previous game, not a previous case)
-Multiple criminals (where both are truly the "killer," rather than something like 2-2 or I-5, where one was the killer and one was the accomplice. You'd have to face down both at the same time as the end, I think)
-The playable character
-Animal (I don't think this or the previous one will ever actually happen, though xP)

I think that's exhaustive (can't think of anything else), and since they've done a different role each game, I wouldn't be surprised if one of those 7 (5 if you take out the 2 REALLY improbable ones) ends up being the big bad in GK3/GS6.


Well...

Spoiler: AJ
In terms of victim, Magnifi offed himself.


Spoiler: PLvsAA
There were two plays on victim here - Olive turning out to have tried to kill Mahone/being a jewel thief, and Belduke's suicide. Those weren't final cases though.

Hi! I've largely stepped back from C-R due to life stuff. Please contact one of the other staff members for help!

Wooster wrote:
If there was such a thing as the "Wooster Seal of Approval", this post would get it.
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