Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Quote:
Yes...everything else about Athena is unbelievable and amazing why not this? The evidence all points to it being a device that can read Athena's brainwaves and mental thoughts piecing together emotional and contextual information to produce a voice.
I think this goes back to something that BP mentioned a while ago, which is believability in context of the universe. In AA land, it's kind of an accepted custom by now for European lawyers to all start at ridiculously young ages, since the law institutions over there have now all decided that they could start doing something productive with daycare or something. There hasn't been anything introduced that would remotely suggest mind reading as a feasible possibility though, and since Athena's description of it is so unclear, I don't see enough reason to believe in something as far fetched as that.
I always understood it as Europe(/America) not rushing everyone into graduating college while they're still a teenager, but rather being more progressive, and hence allowing those with the capacity to graduate early to do so, whereas in America(/Japan) you're not allowed to skip grades and go to college super-early no matter how smart you are.
Don't forget that Athena lived in America until she was 11; even if Europe has super-accelerated daycares, she didn't go to one.
TheBlarghMan wrote:
Quote:
Off-Topic: Exactly where/how do you get all these screenshots? xD
That's a sekkkkkkrrrriiiitttttt (insert Scuttlebutt box here)
(insert judge robe here)
This isn't a gavel... It's a banhammer, y'know!
(also jk)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Quote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
Quote:
Off-Topic: Exactly where/how do you get all these screenshots? xD
That's a sekkkkkkrrrriiiitttttt (insert Scuttlebutt box here)
(insert judge robe here)
This isn't a gavel... It's a banhammer, y'know!
(also jk)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
(insert sly grin indicating that yes, he will in fact do it again)
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
(insert sly grin indicating that yes, he will in fact do it again)
"I can't go to hell, little weirdo. I'm all out of vacation days."
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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...Sigh, and here I was hoping this debate had finally come to a silly end, when all it was, was a reroute. Nonetheless, I'm still playing it.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
After a long and winding journey through a fierce battle of wits, this feels just like the end of a victorious case. Let us play the music.
But we still haven't come to any kind of truth or understanding.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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henke37 wrote:
Can't we rule that Widget is covered by the rule of gag props? Characters have had far stranger props with them. Like say Moe's emotion matching hat.
Far stranger than a mind reading tech ball on a necklace?
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Phoenix and Apollo love Athena, all the witnesses (except the killers) love Athena, and nobody could do anything without her. But so far she hasn't done anything really awesome...
Sure, Phoenix and Apollo depended on their assistants often too (especially Mia for Phoenix and Phoenix for Apollo), and there's other characters who have similar positive traits (being lawyers at a young age, magical powers, ...) but with her it feels too much for me.
I don't hate her, I'm just a bit annoyed, and I haven't seen a reason to like her yet (except her animations can be funny). But maybe that will change when I've finished the game.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Evolina wrote:
I don't like the term Mary Sue, but it's been annoying me a bit how so far (I'm near the end of case 2) many parts of the games felt like "Athena is so awesome because she's X and Y and everything ooh Athena Athena Athena wonderful Athena"
Phoenix and Apollo love Athena, all the witnesses (except the killers) love Athena, and nobody could do anything without her. But so far she hasn't done anything really awesome...
Sure, Phoenix and Apollo depended on their assistants often too (especially Mia for Phoenix and Phoenix for Apollo), and there's other characters who have similar positive traits (being lawyers at a young age, magical powers, ...) but with her it feels too much for me.
I don't hate her, I'm just a bit annoyed, and I haven't seen a reason to like her yet (except her animations can be funny). But maybe that will change when I've finished the game.
Phoenix and Apollo love Athena, all the witnesses (except the killers) love Athena, and nobody could do anything without her. But so far she hasn't done anything really awesome...
Sure, Phoenix and Apollo depended on their assistants often too (especially Mia for Phoenix and Phoenix for Apollo), and there's other characters who have similar positive traits (being lawyers at a young age, magical powers, ...) but with her it feels too much for me.
I don't hate her, I'm just a bit annoyed, and I haven't seen a reason to like her yet (except her animations can be funny). But maybe that will change when I've finished the game.
At this point, I'm somewhat forced to say "pics or it never happened."
I'm wrapping up a replay of Case 2 myself, and I haven't come across a single incident where I would consider her being "showered with praise" like people claim. I honestly have no idea where this assertion is coming from.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Sligneris wrote:
I get the impression some people just want to hate on Athena using any excuse at hand.
wow
lawyer at 18
so unrealistic
prodigy mary sue much
wow
unrealistic psychological analysis
so much magic
wow
It is a mockery, but this how I see all these "problems".
wow
lawyer at 18
so unrealistic
prodigy mary sue much
wow
unrealistic psychological analysis
so much magic
wow
It is a mockery, but this how I see all these "problems".
I have to say I agree with this. I do have some gripes with her, but I've begun dropping trying to find out why because there's just a lot of subtle details about her characterization and her presentation that makes her not-as-likable-as-the-game-makes-her-out-to-be... ish. I think the whole age issue is grasping at straws. Franziska was barely out of her infancy before she got her title. It's ace attorney, you can't start putting 2 and 2 together when it comes to how the characters have been educated.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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linkenski wrote:
I have to say I agree with this. I do have some gripes with her, but I've begun dropping trying to find out why because there's just a lot of subtle details about her characterization and her presentation that makes her not-as-likable-as-the-game-makes-her-out-to-be... ish. I think the whole age issue is grasping at straws. Franziska was barely out of her infancy before she got her title. It's ace attorney, you can't start putting 2 and 2 together when it comes to how the characters have been educated.
How many times do I have to go over this? xD
Franziska...
1. Has a compelling motive in having become a prosecutor so young; that is, her father. He was obsessed with having a perfect everything in his life--this included a perfect daughter. (As compared to Athena, who became an attorney so young just because she's that awesome.)
2. Really has no other positive personality traits. She's cruel, petty, prone to jealousy, actually not very bright, and has been living in the shadow of Edgeworth for nearly her entire life. (Meanwhile, Athena, in addition to being an eighteen year-old attorney, is a well-liked athletic psychologist with swag and magical superpowers.)
3. Is not a protagonist. (This really is the most important one.)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Bad Player wrote:
linkenski wrote:
I have to say I agree with this. I do have some gripes with her, but I've begun dropping trying to find out why because there's just a lot of subtle details about her characterization and her presentation that makes her not-as-likable-as-the-game-makes-her-out-to-be... ish. I think the whole age issue is grasping at straws. Franziska was barely out of her infancy before she got her title. It's ace attorney, you can't start putting 2 and 2 together when it comes to how the characters have been educated.
How many times do I have to go over this? xD
Franziska...
1. Has a compelling motive in having become a prosecutor so young; that is, her father. He was obsessed with having a perfect everything in his life--this included a perfect daughter. (As compared to Athena, who became an attorney so young just because she's that awesome.)
2. Really has no other positive personality traits. She's cruel, petty, prone to jealousy, actually not very bright, and has been living in the shadow of Edgeworth for nearly her entire life. (Meanwhile, Athena, in addition to being an eighteen year-old attorney, is a well-liked athletic psychologist with swag and magical superpowers.)
3. Is not a protagonist. (This really is the most important one.)
While I'll give you the second and the third, although I disagree with the implications of the third, Athena has a much, much more compelling motive for becoming an attorney: Saving the life of her friend.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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) In my own headcanon, Manfred was teaching Franzy about law and prosecuting for pretty much her entire life, ever since she was extremely young. While there isn't any evidence for or against it, I think that seems perfectly reasonable given what we know about the characters. I'd also be pretty surprised if Manfred didn't use his power and influence to pull some strings for Franzy and get her into schools and then the prosecutor's office early.Meanwhile, we have absolutely no reason to think there was someone pressuring/teaching Athena about law her entire life, or that the relatives she lived with in Europe after HAT-1 was someone who could pull strings for her. We really have nothing to go on for "how" she became an attorney so young besides "she's just that amazing."
Also, I'm not sure the motive for "why" she became an attorney is as compelling as it actually seems. It's not like she was working towards becoming an attorney for the past seven years; she didn't decide to become one until she met Nick.
[I suppose you could make an argument that Nick had a very similar background in terms of his motivations for becoming an attorney (Actually, I just realized how similar they are. Hooray, more copy-pasted plot from a previous game.) and I don't seem to have a problem with them, but Nick is a strange case because it was retconned. In AA it seemed like he had been working towards becoming a lawyer for a while, while in T&T it was changed so that it wasn't until he was 20. However, even in the retconned version, Nick still had a strong interest in law, and possibly becoming a lawyer, before he met Mia. After all, where did he first meet Dahlia? In the courthouse! Of course, we don't know if Athena had an interest in law prior to meeting Nick or not, because the writers glossed over basically every single aspect of Athena's past that wasn't HAT-1.]
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Bad Player wrote:
We really have nothing to go on for "how" she became an attorney so young besides "she's just that amazing."
I'm going to have to disagree with you there, buddy.
We also have the "lol europe" excuse. And yes, without the capital E.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Thane wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
We really have nothing to go on for "how" she became an attorney so young besides "she's just that amazing."
I'm going to have to disagree with you there, buddy.
We also have the "lol europe" excuse. And yes, without the capital E.
Like I said in another post, I don't think that Europe actually has an accelerated curriculum that gets people out of college faster; I think they simply allow people to do things faster, if they have the capacity. It's not that everyone in Europe is a genius; it's just that Europe is the only place geniuses are allowed to do things faster. (Whereas in America you can't graduate college when you're a teenager, no matter how smart you are.)
Also, don't forget that even if Europe has a super-advanced curriculum, she was still in America for more than half of her life.
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Bad Player wrote:
Thane wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
We really have nothing to go on for "how" she became an attorney so young besides "she's just that amazing."
I'm going to have to disagree with you there, buddy.
We also have the "lol europe" excuse. And yes, without the capital E.
Like I said in another post, I don't think that Europe actually has an accelerated curriculum that gets people out of college faster; I think they simply allow people to do things faster, if they have the capacity. It's not that everyone in Europe is a genius; it's just that Europe is the only place geniuses are allowed to do things faster. (Whereas in America you can't graduate college when you're a teenager, no matter how smart you are.)
Also, don't forget that even if Europe has a super-advanced curriculum, she was still in America for more than half of her life.
Heh, I wasn't actually serious. I agree with pretty much everything you've said so far.
Still though, I'd love to see the Ace Attorney universe Europe; I bet everyone's driving flying cars and have a personal robot slave.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Anyway, I honestly didn't see where she was "showered with praise" too much in the game.
I think the only reason she know psychology is because her mother taught it to her when she was younger. And the reason she was pressured into law was so she could save Simon, I believe.
Since Simon was also studying to be/already was a lawyer, I firmly believe she got much of what she knows from Metis and Simon. That's probably why she can manipulate witnesses like Bobby so well.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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GoingforMiles wrote:
Now I've just seen case 1 and 2, but I don't recall that much either. Maybe from Phoenix, saying in the very beginning that "her powers is just what we need now" or something to that effect. And at least so far Apollo seems pretty indifferent to her.
Phoenix's biggest line of praise for Athena in Case 2 is something along the lines of "When I saw her ability to hear emotions, I knew it would be something special." That's the only time he says anything of substantial praise towards Athena.
Apollo's biggest compliment (and I realize that's subjective, but he doesn't exactly say or think a lot about the psychological stuff) is "wow...maybe I underestimated her," in response to the line from Phoenix above. I certainly agree that Phoenix (and to a lesser extent, Apollo) is impressed with her ability, but showering in praise is taking that more than a bit far.
I guess I'll pay extra attention to that in Cases 3, 4, and 5, and maybe something new will come up.
Off Topic...if you've only played Case 1 and 2...it's probably a little dangerous to be on here. Spoilers aren't tagged, so...
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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FenrirDarkWolf wrote:
Am I one of the few people who likes Athena? -w-
Anyway, I honestly didn't see where she was "showered with praise" too much in the game.
I think the only reason she know psychology is because her mother taught it to her when she was younger. And the reason she was pressured into law was so she could save Simon, I believe.
Since Simon was also studying to be/already was a lawyer, I firmly believe she got much of what she knows from Metis and Simon. That's probably why she can manipulate witnesses like Bobby so well.
Anyway, I honestly didn't see where she was "showered with praise" too much in the game.
I think the only reason she know psychology is because her mother taught it to her when she was younger. And the reason she was pressured into law was so she could save Simon, I believe.
Since Simon was also studying to be/already was a lawyer, I firmly believe she got much of what she knows from Metis and Simon. That's probably why she can manipulate witnesses like Bobby so well.
You definitely are not :P Also iunno about excessive praise of her (I don't think I've ever made that argument xD)
If she learned all that stuff by the time she was eleven, rather than eighteen, that just makes her more ridiculous. But I'm inclined to think she learned a great deal after HAT-1; I find it hard to believe a girl who can't even tell the difference between people and robots could be a master psychological manipulator.
Athena also explicitly states that the reason she became a lawyer was her meeting with Nick.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Off Topic...if you've only played Case 1 and 2...it's probably a little dangerous to be on here. Spoilers aren't tagged, so...
Heh, that's ok, I think I already know most of what there is to her story.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Bad Player wrote:
FenrirDarkWolf wrote:
Am I one of the few people who likes Athena? -w-
Anyway, I honestly didn't see where she was "showered with praise" too much in the game.
I think the only reason she know psychology is because her mother taught it to her when she was younger. And the reason she was pressured into law was so she could save Simon, I believe.
Since Simon was also studying to be/already was a lawyer, I firmly believe she got much of what she knows from Metis and Simon. That's probably why she can manipulate witnesses like Bobby so well.
Anyway, I honestly didn't see where she was "showered with praise" too much in the game.
I think the only reason she know psychology is because her mother taught it to her when she was younger. And the reason she was pressured into law was so she could save Simon, I believe.
Since Simon was also studying to be/already was a lawyer, I firmly believe she got much of what she knows from Metis and Simon. That's probably why she can manipulate witnesses like Bobby so well.
You definitely are not :P Also iunno about excessive praise of her (I don't think I've ever made that argument xD)
If she learned all that stuff by the time she was eleven, rather than eighteen, that just makes her more ridiculous. But I'm inclined to think she learned a great deal after HAT-1; I find it hard to believe a girl who can't even tell the difference between people and robots could be a master psychological manipulator.
Athena also explicitly states that the reason she became a lawyer was her meeting with Nick.
Well...that's not entirely true.
The exact line is: "It's thanks to Mr. Wright that I became a lawyer at all."
I realize it sounds kind of like splitting hairs, but this could mean a number of things. It could be that Phoenix met Athena, thought she would make a great lawyer, and got Edgeworth (who I believe we can all safely assume was the "old friend" of Phoenix's that went with him to Europe) to write her a recommendation to some school.
One final possibility, and my personal guess, is that her situation was a bit like college Phoenix's. Phoenix intended to save Edgeworth, but eventually needed some extra motivation from Mia. So Phoenix, in a Mia type role, provided an extra boost to the already existing motivation of saving Simon Blackquill.
The difference at the end of the day is that meeting Phoenix may not have necessarily been the inspiration to become a lawyer. She may have already been working to become a lawyer, and then Nick either provided her with the means or an extra boost of encouragement to hurry things up.
One more off topic theory for the sake of craziness is that Phoenix might have told Edgeworth about her story, and Edgeworth immediately would have recognized the name "Simon Blackquill." Edgeworth then could have pulled some strings to help Athena graduate faster, while simultaneously pushing back Blackquill's execution date until after she could feasibly become a lawyer. Then, when Phoenix cleared his name, Edgeworth nudged him to reclaim his badge when Athena arrived, so that Athena could provide a clear connection for Phoenix to want to save Blackquill.
(but that's just random conjecture for the sake of)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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(Localization strikes again!!)
Also, I doubt your second theory because months pass (IIRC) after Athena joins Wright & Co before 5-4 happens. If Nick and Edgey planned all of that for Athena to save Blackquill, I feel they'd have made it so that Athena did it, rather than waiting for if/when something just happened to happen to kick everything off. (Heck, if the schedule had just been a bit different, and the rocket launch a week or so later, it seems like Blackquill would have been executed without Nick or Edgey doing anything!)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Quote:
(Localization strikes again!!)
Quote:
Also, I doubt your second theory because months pass (IIRC) after Athena joins Wright & Co before 5-4 happens. If Nick and Edgey planned all of that for Athena to save Blackquill, I feel they'd have made it so that Athena did it, rather than waiting for if/when something just happened to happen to kick everything off. (Heck, if the schedule had just been a bit different, and the rocket launch a week or so later, it seems like Blackquill would have been executed without Nick or Edgey doing anything!)
I think the idea was that they needed the Phantom to make a move before they could spring the trap, so to speak. If "the target," as Phoenix puts it, didn't make a move at all, Blackquill would have been screwed from the get go. Edgeworth probably had some idea as to the Phantom's paranoia, and probably banked on that.
If Blackquill could have been saved without a move by the Phantom, I think Edgeworth would have gotten Phoenix to do it as soon as he reclaimed his badge. They had to have a movement by the Phantom in order to get it to work.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Quote:
(Localization strikes again!!)
AND Athena can summon gigantic crescent moons to attack her enemies?
WHAT A SUE
Quote:
I think the idea was that they needed the Phantom to make a move before they could spring the trap, so to speak. If "the target," as Phoenix puts it, didn't make a move at all, Blackquill would have been screwed from the get go. Edgeworth probably had some idea as to the Phantom's paranoia, and probably banked on that.
If Blackquill could have been saved without a move by the Phantom, I think Edgeworth would have gotten Phoenix to do it as soon as he reclaimed his badge. They had to have a movement by the Phantom in order to get it to work.
If Blackquill could have been saved without a move by the Phantom, I think Edgeworth would have gotten Phoenix to do it as soon as he reclaimed his badge. They had to have a movement by the Phantom in order to get it to work.
While I guess they needed to wait for Phantom to make a move to catch Phantom, I don't think they needed one to prove Athena and Blackquill innocent. IIRC, absolutely nothing in the trial that was used to prove Blackquill and Athena both innocent relied on anything done by Phantom in the present. (Remember: a lot of the final confrontation was spent proving not that Phantom was guilty, but that Fulbright was Phantom.)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Or, alternatively (as bad as this sounds), maybe Edgeworth really did suspect Athena all along. He goes after her really hard during the trial, and it seemed to me like he genuinely believed she was responsible. Perhaps he talked with Aura at some point and came to suspect Athena as well. Blackquill, of course, would never let Athena take the fall, so he would have needed Phoenix there to point out the lies in Blackquill's cover up.
Both of those are simply conjecture, though. What we do know, at the very least (from 3-3), is that it's quite difficult to get a retrial in any case without a good reason, so it would have probably been hard to have a retrial without some light being shed on the events beforehand. Also, keep in mind that Athena was still suspected of her mother's murder until a short ways through the Phantom's testimony on the stand. Even though the Phantom didn't need to be proven guilty in order to prove Athena innocent, there was some testimony that was required from the Phantom in order to show that she was not guilty, and thus, at the very least, the Phantom would have to be present in order to completely get both Athena and Blackquill off the hook.
Quote:
(Remember: a lot of the final confrontation was spent proving not that Phantom was guilty, but that Fulbright was Phantom.)
Right, but without what the Phantom did in the present (his attempt to frame Athena), they never would have figured out that he was the Phantom in the first place. Some action was needed by the Phantom in order to bring him out as a viable third party. Without a viable third party, Athena couldn't be proven innocent, and without the ability to prove Athena innocent, I don't think Blackquill would have been willing to tell the truth.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Bad Player wrote:
But the point is that Nick and Edgey didn't do anything, even at the last minute, days before Blackquill was going to get executed. Which makes me doubt the theory that they were there behind the scenes, opening doors and pulling strings for Athena, for the specific purpose of saving Blackquill.
Well, at the very least, Phoenix didn't know that Blackquill was about to be executed. So that explains why he didn't do anything.
As for Edgeworth, again, I'm not entirely sure there's much he could have done. Maybe he had some way to pull a string and get Blackquill's execution date postponed?
The idea isn't so much that Athena has to be the one to save Blackquill. I don't think Edgeworth was trying to set this up as some sort of happy reunion. If he brought Athena over for the sake of getting Blackquill acquitted, he likely did so simply to get Phoenix tied in with the case.
That said, let's quickly summarize Edgeworth's goals/plan:
He wants to have Blackquill acquitted.
To that end, he needs a retrial of Blackquill.
In order to get a retrial of Blackquill, he would need a present case to come up that might be tied into what happened seven years ago. Thus the need for the Phantom to make a move.
In order to get anywhere with the case from seven years ago, he would need at least one witness to testify on the events that occurred. Blackquill wasn't willing to say anything, the Phantom wasn't avaliable, and the only other person on the scene was...Athena
Thus, the next step is bringing Athena over to America; specifically, Los Angeles, so that when the Phantom makes a move, she's there to testify about the events of seven years ago.
The key that I want to stress here is how Athena's testimony is absolutely crucial in blowing holes in Blackquill's false confession. Without her coming over to America, Edgeworth would have no witness testimony to compare to Blackquill's statements.
So it wouldn't be so much that Edgeworth wanted Athena to save Blackquill, but he needed her to be present to show that Blackquill's confession was a lie.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Assuming Athena wasn't in the country at the time, say Phoenix had never picked up on it. She would have been extradited over surely? Aura would still have forced the retrial with Athena as the defendant. She would have had to have been present in some form. I imagine Aura might have been more understanding in her time limit to allow Athena to be dragged to the country or some video-conference to be established in the embassy for her to give testimony.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Pierre wrote:
Just an interjection. I've been away so long the debates have moved on.
Assuming Athena wasn't in the country at the time, say Phoenix had never picked up on it. She would have been extradited over surely? Aura would still have forced the retrial with Athena as the defendant. She would have had to have been present in some form. I imagine Aura might have been more understanding in her time limit to allow Athena to be dragged to the country or some video-conference to be established in the embassy for her to give testimony.
Assuming Athena wasn't in the country at the time, say Phoenix had never picked up on it. She would have been extradited over surely? Aura would still have forced the retrial with Athena as the defendant. She would have had to have been present in some form. I imagine Aura might have been more understanding in her time limit to allow Athena to be dragged to the country or some video-conference to be established in the embassy for her to give testimony.
Well, I'm not entirely sure that whatever country Athena lived in would exactly be willing to extradite her because some crazy hostage holder is demanding her be tried, and I don't think that Aura would have been able to hold out long enough for Athena to be tried.
That said, Edgeworth had no way of knowing that Aura was going to pull that kidnapping stunt. If Athena had not been there at the time, he would have had to risk going past Blackquill's execution date.
Bringing her over to Los Angeles also allowed for Phoenix to develop a connection to Athena, and Edgeworth is close enough to Phoenix to know that when someone he cares about is involved in a case, he'll do everything he can to find the truth. Leaving Athena in Europe would have risked detaching Phoenix from events somewhat.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Quote:
(Localization strikes again!!)
Now that I get a good look at this picture, that does look painful. Did Apollo's attacks have a different color, or were they the same?
Bad Player wrote:
(Actually, I just realized how similar they are. Hooray, more copy-pasted plot from a previous game.)
Aw, man. At this rate, we're gonna get a bunch of Phoenix Wright clones.
...Wait, that sounds amazing. It's like he's everywhere at once. (Take THAT, Edgey! You and your attention-hogging-and-franchise-taking-over...)
Thane wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
We really have nothing to go on for "how" she became an attorney so young besides "she's just that amazing."
I'm going to have to disagree with you there, buddy.
We also have the "lol europe" excuse. And yes, without the capital E.
It's not Europe; it's Eurmerica. With the power and resources of two countries combined, we should be saying, "No wonder she's only 18!"
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Last edited by Rubia Ryu the Royal on Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Sorry to cut in, but...
Now that I get a good look at this picture, that does look painful. Did Apollo's attacks have a different color, or was it all the same?
TheBlarghMan wrote:
Quote:
(Localization strikes again!!)
Now that I get a good look at this picture, that does look painful. Did Apollo's attacks have a different color, or was it all the same?
That's actually from Case 2. The animation is the same throughout.
(not entirely sure if this was a joke or not so I answered seriously just to be sure)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
In order to get anywhere with the case from seven years ago, he would need at least one witness to testify on the events that occurred. Blackquill wasn't willing to say anything, the Phantom wasn't avaliable, and the only other person on the scene was...Athena
I disagree with this. Couldn't that video tape of Phantom fleeing the scene of the crime (that was conveniently overlooked 7 years ago
) be grounds for a retrial? (I know you said that 3-3 showed that getting a retrial is difficult, but it might be easier for the Chief Prosecutor than it is for a random attorney or random lowly detective...?) Even if he needed a witness, rather than evidence, he probably could have gotten one of the random reporters or investigators at the place to do it, if absolutely necessary.The point is Edgeworth probably could have done something, but... he din't. Not even the day before Blackquill was to be executed.
P.S.: Why are we arguing this? I forget how it ties into Athena being a terrible character
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Bad Player wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
In order to get anywhere with the case from seven years ago, he would need at least one witness to testify on the events that occurred. Blackquill wasn't willing to say anything, the Phantom wasn't avaliable, and the only other person on the scene was...Athena
I disagree with this. Couldn't that video tape of Phantom fleeing the scene of the crime (that was conveniently overlooked 7 years ago
) be grounds for a retrial? (I know you said that 3-3 showed that getting a retrial is difficult, but it might be easier for the Chief Prosecutor than it is for a random attorney or random lowly detective...?) Even if he needed a witness, rather than evidence, he probably could have gotten one of the random reporters or investigators at the place to do it, if absolutely necessary.The point is Edgeworth probably could have done something, but... he din't. Not even the day before Blackquill was to be executed.
P.S.: Why are we arguing this? I forget how it ties into Athena being a terrible character
Well, yeah, but keep in mind that no one would have looked at the tape at all (in the retrial or otherwise) because Phoenix argued for the existence of the Phantom in the first place. And he wouldn't have argued the existence of the Phantom if it weren't for the retrial. So, to summarize, the extra camera footage would never have come to light if it weren't for the retrial because the police department is horribly incompetent.
And we're arguing this because this is the intermission of the Athena debate. :p
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Well, yeah, but keep in mind that no one would have looked at the tape at all (in the retrial or otherwise) because Phoenix argued for the existence of the Phantom in the first place. And he wouldn't have argued the existence of the Phantom if it weren't for the retrial. So, to summarize, the extra camera footage would never have come to light if it weren't for the retrial because the police department is horribly incompetent.
But this is Edgey and/or Nick we're talking about! They aren't supposed to be incompetent. And if Edgey was trying to get a retrial, I imagine he would look through the witness statements and evidence... which includes the security camera.
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Re: Athena's character (SPOILERS)
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Bad Player wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
Well, yeah, but keep in mind that no one would have looked at the tape at all (in the retrial or otherwise) because Phoenix argued for the existence of the Phantom in the first place. And he wouldn't have argued the existence of the Phantom if it weren't for the retrial. So, to summarize, the extra camera footage would never have come to light if it weren't for the retrial because the police department is horribly incompetent.
But this is Edgey and/or Nick we're talking about! They aren't supposed to be incompetent. And if Edgey was trying to get a retrial, I imagine he would look through the witness statements and evidence... which includes the security camera.
At the very least, Edgeworth was extremely incompetent in this case, although he may have just been handed the files from the case and just assumed they looked over the entire video.
At any rate, I would imagine Edgeworth had been planning for a retrial at some point, considering that, at the very least, he planned roughly 6 months in advance to get Blackquill acquitted (that was when he came to Phoenix and asked him to regain his attorney's badge to help Blackquill). But yeah, Edgeworth missed this one big time regardless of whether he planned for Athena to be involved or not.
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