Re: The Japanese language thread
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And nowadays I speed through them >_>
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Ash wrote:
Man, I remember reading my first novel in Japanese (Higashino Keigo's The Devotion of Suspect X); I spent quite some time with my dictionaries that summer...
And nowadays I speed through them >_>
And nowadays I speed through them >_>
I've just read that book. Just in English, though.
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Ash wrote:
Man, I remember reading my first novel in Japanese (Higashino Keigo's The Devotion of Suspect X); I spent quite some time with my dictionaries that summer...
And nowadays I speed through them >_>
And nowadays I speed through them >_>
When I played GK2, I could tell that I was a lot faster by the end than at the beginning.
...I don't really feel that way about 密室殺人ゲーム, though
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Mirii-chan wrote:
Ash wrote:
Man, I remember reading my first novel in Japanese (Higashino Keigo's The Devotion of Suspect X); I spent quite some time with my dictionaries that summer...
And nowadays I speed through them >_>
And nowadays I speed through them >_>
I've just read that book. Just in English, though.
Well, it's a great novel, no matter the language. The sequel, Salvation of a Saint (also available in English) is also great!
Bad Player wrote:
When I played GK2, I could tell that I was a lot faster by the end than at the beginning.
...I don't really feel that way about 密室殺人ゲーム, though
...I don't really feel that way about 密室殺人ゲーム, though
Well, GS/GK is mostly dialogue, with almost no proper 地の文, so it's usually a lot easier to read than 'conventional' novels.
By the way, the 文字数 of the stories I wrote, including the one I'm working on now, is also nearing that of a short volume... ^_~
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Ash wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
When I played GK2, I could tell that I was a lot faster by the end than at the beginning.
...I don't really feel that way about 密室殺人ゲーム, though
...I don't really feel that way about 密室殺人ゲーム, though
Well, GS/GK is mostly dialogue, with almost no proper 地の文, so it's usually a lot easier to read than 'conventional' novels.
I don't just mean I was faster at reading GK2 than reading 密室殺人ゲーム... I mean by the end of GK2 I was a lot faster at reading GK2 than at the beginning of GK2, whereas I don't really feel like I was that much faster at reading 密室殺人ゲーム by the end of it than the beginning...
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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At least, that's what I noticed, it's more an honorifics thing than difference in words.
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Ash wrote:
For those who are already doing advanced Japanse, I recommend the TV quiz program Nihongo TanQ Variety Quiz - Sore Maji!? Nippon (日本語探Qバラエティ クイズ!それマジ!?ニッポン), which started just a month ago on Fuji TV. It's a lighthearted quiz program all about the Japanese language, from etomology of words to dialects and guessing the difference between two similar words. It's aimed at Japanese people, so for non-natives learning the language, the program also shows the parts of the language even natives have trouble with, which is quite interesting (and educational in a fun way).
どこで見られるの？
CatMuto wrote:
San is more of a hint that they respect their brother. Chan is often used when the siblings are very close.
At least, that's what I noticed, it's more an honorifics thing than difference in words.
C-A
At least, that's what I noticed, it's more an honorifics thing than difference in words.
C-A
"Chan" also sounds a bit cuter. And yes, the difference is entirely in tone/nuance/implications, not meaning.
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Bad Player wrote:
どこで見られるの?
It's not a drama, but you might find it on, say, a website for 'drama-addicts'. And because drama is such a long word, you might want to just write only the first letter down. *cough*
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Ash wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
どこで見られるの?
It's not a drama, but you might find it on, say, a website for 'drama-addicts'. And because drama is such a long word, you might want to just write only the first letter down. *cough*
ありがとう～
A week or so ago, I finally succeeding in finding a site that has anime raws! (Or rather, a friend randomly happened to show it to me.) Unfortunately, I haven't had time to watch anything lately... Also, it seems that they periodically delete videos that are older, so while they have a ton of animes in their "listings," they don't have actually have that many... I was thinking of watching something current, but it doesn't look like there's anything good ;_; *sigh* If nothing else, I was planning on watching Phi-Brain, because at least that's... sorta what I like. Might watch the new Kindaichi Shounen when it comes out, but... still deciding if I want to watch it at all.
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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I don't know a lot of words though.
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Sjibbey wrote:
I think learning Japanese would be nice as my 4th language, but I'm not sure where to start. Are there good websites with like basic phrases and how they are spelled to look around a bit for free? or is taking classes the only viable option for a complete beginner? I'd like to describe my level of Japanese at: South Park level, where I can understand what the Japanese people are saying, but that's only because they use basic/stereotypical stuff.
Mh, maybe look online for a grid on the writing for kata and hiragana. That's how I learned them, I saw them often enough to recognize them and translate them. (It got so bad that sometimes, when I'm looking at an I, I immediately read it as Eh)
As for phrases... not really sure... I picked stuff up from anime, then proceeded to play games in Japanese, which really helped.
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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The beginning was quite fun, just with all the ups and downs
But suddenly, we’re tired, from a waste of meaningless emotions
But suddenly, we’re tired, from a waste of meaningless emotions
시작은 뭐 즐거웠었네 오르락내리락 그 자체로 어느새 서로 지쳐버렸네 의미 없는 감정소모에
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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SuperAj3 wrote:
So in my classes at school, we've started learning "Causative passive", talking about how it's only used if you're reluctant about what's happening (but can be neutral when talking about thoughts or memories.), e.g 「病院に行かされた」"I was made to go to the hospital". And I was wondering if this is the way people describe something breaking, as I know in Japanese, there's no blame put on who broke what, and it's passive. Could anyone clarify this for me?
You can use a normal passive for that, or an intransitive form of a verb: 'blame' can be added in subsequent clauses (i.e. で、○○○のため、○○○によって etc). To use a line from a famous song:
俺は校舎の窓ガラスを壊した。 (I broke the school windows) (act, transitive)
校舎の窓ガラスは[飛んできたボールで]壊れた。 (The school windows broke [because of an incoming ball]) (act, intransitive)
校舎の窓ガラスは[俺によって]壊された。(The school windows were broken [by me]) (passive)
彼は俺に[校舎の窓ガラスを]壊させた。 (He made me break [the school windows]) (causative)
俺は彼に[校舎の窓ガラスを]壊させられた。 (I was made to break [the school windows] by him) (causative passive)
But you can't 'force' a window to do an action, so you can't use a causative passive to say the window broke.
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Last edited by Ash on Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Ash wrote:
SuperAj3 wrote:
So in my classes at school, we've started learning "Causative passive", talking about how it's only used if you're reluctant about what's happening (but can be neutral when talking about thoughts or memories.), e.g 「病院に行かされた」"I was made to go to the hospital". And I was wondering if this is the way people describe something breaking, as I know in Japanese, there's no blame put on who broke what, and it's passive. Could anyone clarify this for me?
You can use a normal passive for that, or an intransitive form of a verb: 'blame' can be added in subsequent clauses (i.e. で、○○○のため、○○○によって etc). To use a line from a famous song:
俺は校舎の窓ガラスを壊した。 (I broke the school windows) (act, transitive)
校舎の窓ガラスは[飛んだきたボールで]壊れた。 (The school windows broke [because of an incoming ball]) (act, intransitive)
校舎の窓ガラスは[俺によって]壊された。(The school window were broken [by me]) (passive)
彼は俺に[校舎の窓ガラスを]壊させた。 (He made me break [the school windows]) (causative)
俺は彼に[校舎の窓ガラスを]壊させられた。 (I was made to break [the school windows] by him) (causative passive)
But you can't 'force' a window to do an action, so you can't use a causative passive to say the window broke.
Thanks!
That makes more sense! 
Re: The Japanese language thread
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I was considering paying for Rosetta Stone, but it's like £260 (about $500), so I'm reluctant.
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Hiragana is one form of writing the alphabet and is a bit more... "curly". Most kids start with this.
Katakana is the other form, which is simpler and is often used to phonetically write foreign words.
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Ash wrote:
AFAIK, Genki and Minna no Nihongo are often used at university courses (at least, English-language ones). We used Minna no Nihongo at my university FWIW.
Out of all of those which do you recommend?
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Ishimaru Kiyotaka wrote:
Ash wrote:
AFAIK, Genki and Minna no Nihongo are often used at university courses (at least, English-language ones). We used Minna no Nihongo at my university FWIW.
Out of all of those which do you recommend?
At my university we use Minna no Nihongo. It's not bad, and there are plenty of extra materials available for it. I feel it might take some getting used to if you are teaching yourself though.
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Ishimaru Kiyotaka wrote:
Ash wrote:
AFAIK, Genki and Minna no Nihongo are often used at university courses (at least, English-language ones). We used Minna no Nihongo at my university FWIW.
Out of all of those which do you recommend?
Are you going to start taking classes next semester, or is it all self-study? If you're going to take classes, I would recommend just learning hiragana and katakana on your own beforehand (which can be done with free, online materials). That alone will give you a huge head start. I'd also recommend just buying and using whatever textbook they're going to use in the class you're going to take.
If there is no class, and it's all self-study... no idea
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Bad Player wrote:
Ishimaru Kiyotaka wrote:
Ash wrote:
AFAIK, Genki and Minna no Nihongo are often used at university courses (at least, English-language ones). We used Minna no Nihongo at my university FWIW.
Out of all of those which do you recommend?
Are you going to start taking classes next semester, or is it all self-study? If you're going to take classes, I would recommend just learning hiragana and katakana on your own beforehand (which can be done with free, online materials). That alone will give you a huge head start. I'd also recommend just buying and using whatever textbook they're going to use in the class you're going to take.
If there is no class, and it's all self-study... no idea
Well now im gonna self study until my semester starts in Sept. My friend at work says to use the Genki series which I found online on a torrent so i'm gonna start studying that next week. I just wanna know any other good textbooks to use.
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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In college I'm going to take a Japanese studies course and travel abroad. I'm going to master this langauge and I won't let anything stop me.
Re: The Japanese language thread
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I think your kanji goal might be a bit too optimistic for such a short period of time though. Not trying to demotivate you, but just saying this from my own experience (having majored in Japanese studies and studied in Japan too). Just the joyo kanji would be a lot more realistic and even then you'd have to be a focused student. But a realistic goal would be a lot more motivating for me than one which would be waaaaaaaay to hard to reach.
(To put things in context, Kanken level 1, the hardest in the Japanese kanji aptitude test, requires you to know more than 6000 kanji, and even that aren't all kanji used in the whole of the Japanese language.)
Bad Player wrote:
Has anyone else seen the new jisho.org? It's amazing!
While it's probably the best known Japanese-Englishdictionary website, I somehow never used the site actually: before I got my electronic dictionary, I used WWWJDIC and now I sometimes use the app Imiwa? (which also uses Jim Breen's files like WWWJDIC) when I don't have my electronic dictionary with me.
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Quote:
Good luck! Japanese is a fun language and I think the basics are easy to pick up, so you'll probably make good progress!
I think your kanji goal might be a bit too optimistic for such a short period of time though. Not trying to demotivate you, but just saying this from my own experience (having majored in Japanese studies and studied in Japan too). Just the joyo kanji would be a lot more realistic and even then you'd have to be a focused student. But a realistic goal would be a lot more motivating for me than one which would be waaaaaaaay to hard to reach.
(To put things in context, Kanken level 1, the hardest in the Japanese kanji aptitude test, requires you to know more than 6000 kanji, and even that aren't all kanji used in the whole of the Japanese language.)
I think your kanji goal might be a bit too optimistic for such a short period of time though. Not trying to demotivate you, but just saying this from my own experience (having majored in Japanese studies and studied in Japan too). Just the joyo kanji would be a lot more realistic and even then you'd have to be a focused student. But a realistic goal would be a lot more motivating for me than one which would be waaaaaaaay to hard to reach.
(To put things in context, Kanken level 1, the hardest in the Japanese kanji aptitude test, requires you to know more than 6000 kanji, and even that aren't all kanji used in the whole of the Japanese language.)
Yeah, I should have clarified on that. I meant the joyo kanji, which are the standard ones most commonly used. Even a lot of the Japanese themselves need to use a dictionary for some kanji. I think that learning 2136 kanji in a year is far more realistic and attainable. That's roughly 6 kanji per day, but I'd probably increase that amount.
I'm wondering what I should do when I eventually learn Japanese. I'm interested in game translation, but I think that I'd probably see myself doing more international work. Interpol or the Secret Service are always in demand of people who are multilingual. I'm also learning French, and will eventually attempt Mandarin and German.
I mentioned this on the New Vent Station thread, but this is also one of my reasons for learning Japanese.
Quote:
My grandmother is still alive at 88, but it's been many years since I've seen her. My father doesn't speak to his family ever, so we no longer go to Winnipeg. However, he does talk to her on occasion, so I've done my best to communicate. She doesn't speak much English though. Only Chinese and Japanese. So with what little Japanese I know, I've had some basic communication. Since I'm getting better every day, I hope to have a more full conversation soon. My grandmother is nearing the end of her life, so I want to have at least some meaningful interaction while I still can. I'm going to continue to study Japanese every day, and hopefully in short time, I can write a letter in the language to her. That is my goal.
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Bad Player wrote:
Has anyone else seen the new jisho.org? It's amazing!
I've always referred to WWWJDIC for text glossing help with long passages. Now, I only need beta jisho. I don't even need to worry about katakana to hiragana conversion for the most part. It's so relieving...
If only they'd update the sentence lists, though. They're pretty useful for review, and all I can find so far are but a few. Glad to see they're still updating stuff, so I think they'll be on it soon enough.
But what's up with the handwriting pad? It seems like the place where I click isn't the same place as where it shows. How am I supposed to look at my mediocre-turned-horrible calligraphy now?
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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...But if you're going to make an euphemism, why use the word with the exact opposite meaning?! Dx
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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Or if that's too difficult to remember, see it as opening the exit door of an event.
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: The Japanese language thread
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Re: The Japanese language thread
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The main difference is that は is used to mark the topic of a sentence, while が is used to mark the subject of a sentence. That sounds kinda alike, and when either is absent, the other usually takes over the function/meaning, but there is a distinction. It might help if you remember は as 'as for...'. With simple sentences, you can usually go by:
1) Ｘさんは犯人だ (X is the criminal)
2) Ｘさんは怖い (X is scary)
3) Ｘさんが殺した (X killed)
1 (NはNだ) and 2 (NはA) will go with は, while 3 (NがV) will go with が. The latter connects the action verb more closely to the one performing the action.
1) Ｘさんが犯人だ
2) Ｘさんが怖い
3) Ｘさんは殺した
Switching the は&が still results in correct sentences, but with different meanings. が strongly poses the word before as the subject, so 1 and 2 would be used when you'd answer to the questions of who the killer is, or who is scary. 3 on the other hand poses two groups against each other (the connotation being, 'as for X, he did kill [, but as for Y, she didn't]')
But consider an example where both are used:
福岡は天気がいい (As for Fukuoka, the weather is nice)
は marks the overall topic of the sentence (i.e. the context), that is, I make it clear we're talking about Fukuoka. Within that context, there is the mini-sentence 天気がいい. が connects the adjective (いい） to the subject of the sentence, which is 天気. So, 'the weather is nice'. Note that the いい connects to が and not は (the overall sentence topic) here, because verbs and adjectives connect to the closest subject/topic marker. So you wouldn't be able to read this as 'Fukuoka is nice' (which would be 福岡はいい）.
There are other sets of particles with similar meanings, but they are easier to keep apart:
* に＆で. Both mark location, but に is used when the verb is stative (レストランにいる）, whereas で is used when performing an action (レストランで食べる）.
* に＆へ. Both mark direction, but に marks a definite goal, whereas へ the general direction. 郵便局に行く and 郵便局へ行く have the same general meaning, but suppose there's a bookstore on the way to the post office. You could say 郵便局へいくなら、本を買ってきてください (buy me a book on the way if you're going to(wards the direction of) the post office), but you couldn't use に here, because に puts emphesis on actually reaching the goal (the post office which presumably doesn't sell books). You can practically always subsitute へ for に, but not the other way around (because に has more functions besides direction). The exception is the construction "への" (i.e. あなたへの愛, 'my love for you', あいつへの忠告 'a warning for him'), which is also へ.
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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