Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Spoiler:
"Follow Your heart out of the darkness! Stand up and rise from the ashes! Back to the start, far from the madness. Come alive again! Break off the chains of hesitation! Your voice will be your salvation! Look to the light of liberation waiting at the end!"
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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I especially loved the breakdowns, definitely the best the series has had
Spoiler:
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Klonoahedgehog wrote:
This is probably my favorite game in the series, i didn't see none of the plotwists coming at all unlike the other games where i kind of saw where they were going with it, these plotwists just sort of came out of left field.
I especially loved the breakdowns, definitely the best the series has had
I especially loved the breakdowns, definitely the best the series has had
Spoiler:
I totally agree. Maybe I saw the plot twist of the second and third case. (that's usually because I'm very perceptive.) But as far as the last case goes that plot twist at the end just BLEW MY MIND!
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Ucha Nekome wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler: All
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
If we count Dahlia as GS3's final villain, then she takes the absolute bottom of the list. I'm sorry, but I don't know why so many people like her. She's cliche, boring, and just an atrocious villain in general. She's also dumb as hell. At least QA put up a fight
How is she "cliché" and "boring"?
She is a little dumb for all her plotting, I'll give you that. But I think it's a mix of being too complacent in her manipulations, staying focused on the prize, and not giving a shit the rest of the time.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Adrian in black wrote:
How is she "cliché" and "boring"?
She is a little dumb for all her plotting, I'll give you that. But I think it's a mix of being too complacent in her manipulations, staying focused on the prize, and not giving a shit the rest of the time.
She is a little dumb for all her plotting, I'll give you that. But I think it's a mix of being too complacent in her manipulations, staying focused on the prize, and not giving a shit the rest of the time.
Cliche - The sweet innocent girl facade with the devil-esque personality
Boring - Because she's cliche
There's just nothing interesting to me about her. People always comment about how evil she is (mostly for "killing" Terry and ruining Diego's life) but it always felt to me like the developers were saying, "How can we make her even MORE evil?"
With Damon Gant, he has the charm, charisma, an amazing motive, an amazing plot, he was intimidating, and he was smart. Also, if you messed up convicting him, he would destroy you
Dahlia just felt like a bland cardboard cutout to me
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Spoiler:
Seriously this has been bugging me all day.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
How is she "cliché" and "boring"?
She is a little dumb for all her plotting, I'll give you that. But I think it's a mix of being too complacent in her manipulations, staying focused on the prize, and not giving a shit the rest of the time.
She is a little dumb for all her plotting, I'll give you that. But I think it's a mix of being too complacent in her manipulations, staying focused on the prize, and not giving a shit the rest of the time.
Cliche - The sweet innocent girl facade with the devil-esque personality
Boring - Because she's cliche
Really? I wasn't aware that was a cliché. Maybe I just don't watch enough anime.
She's always struck me as someone dangerously manipulative with zero remorse for her actions. Is that what seems cliché, a lack of empathy?
Quote:
There's just nothing interesting to me about her. People always comment about how evil she is (mostly for "killing" Terry and ruining Diego's life) but it always felt to me like the developers were saying, "How can we make her even MORE evil?"
She's evil because she is manipulative and sneaky, and she thrives on people being fooled by the innocent act. When that fails, or when one of her crimes is about to be exposed, she kills.
Quote:
With Damon Gant, he has the charm, charisma, an amazing motive, an amazing plot, he was intimidating, and he was smart. Also, if you messed up convicting him, he would destroy you
Dahlia just felt like a bland cardboard cutout to me
Dahlia just felt like a bland cardboard cutout to me
Dahlia was just as intent on destroying people, even in the afterlife.
IMO Gant's "amazing motive" wasn't much different from Dahlia's, at least toward the end. Maybe, at first, he was a good guy who desperately wanted to catch the bad guy... so much that he was willing to kill off one of his subordinates to do so (even when there was no evidence of the bad guy's deeds). Beyond that, he was just trying to conceal his own crimes, even passing blame to an innocent young girl and blackmailing her elder sister over the "crime," and murdering a detective for just suggesting the case be reopened.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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The lack of empathy isn't what seems cliche. It certainly doesn't make Dahlia original or more evil, though. No murderers in the series besides Ini Miney (arguably), Acro, Cammy Meele, and Lance Amano seemed to show any remorse over what they did
By "destroy", I mean it in a different way. Dahlia wanted to kill Maya through possibly one of the shittiest plans ever. With Gant, he would destroy your career and your social standing if you couldn't prove he was guilty. The entire murder he orchestrated would result in everyone involved in the case dead (Goodman, Lana), in prison (Jake Marshall, Ema) or discredited (Phoenix, Edgeworth). He's smart and if he fought until the bitter end. When Dahlia was exposed in 3-5, she just stood there and screamed and didn't do anything
Gant's motive was interesting to me (for SL-9) because of the, "road to bad is paved with good intentions." The writers portray Dahlia as a demon from the start, while they make Gant a character who slowly devolved into evil. He wanted to stop crime because he despised criminals and as a result, he became one himself. Plus, at first it seems like he's covering up a forgery, but then you find out the real reason he wants to hide SL-9. Dahlia's crimes started with stealing a diamond. That's boring
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Innocent Girl who is actually sinister is more of an anime cliché one though I wouldn't say it's an especially big one though but then again I don't watch much anime.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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All the characters were nicely animated and designed. Especially Athena and Gavin looked really amazing in-game. I'd say I'd prefer the 3D models over the drawn sprites from the previous installments. I was surprised by the high quality of the Anime cut scenes and how good the English dub was. I've always had a really bad experience with dubs but AA5 did everything right! I wasn't expecting that to be honest.
What made AA5 so special to me was the story. AA5 had the best story so far in my opinion. I was amazed by Case 5 and how
Spoiler:
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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arcoviso wrote:
I was amazed by Case 5
Must...overcome jetlag...quickly!
I'm just kidding. Welcome to the forums!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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arcoviso wrote:
I was surprised by the high quality of the Anime cut scenes and how good the English dub was. I've always had a really bad experience with dubs but AA5 did everything right! I wasn't expecting that to be honest.
Yes, a supporter! Even if I was disappointed by a certain voice actress' performance, the rest of the cast ranged from decent to surprisingly impressive (and wow, Udgey's was spot-on). I never had a problem with the animation itself either.
(Watching through the scenes in PLvsAA has got me reconsidering this, and I've been doing a lot of comparison. I still believe PLvsAA did better overall with animation and voice casting, but in hindsight, a few issues still stand out from that game. While Bones does very well for the most part in PLvsAA - the Layton scenes are pretty much perfect - a few featuring Phoenix somehow irk me. And as for the cast, it's largely flawless. I've gone on before about how Narumiya's voice acting has ruined several good scenes for me, but I think I can contribute that to an awkward recording session more so than his enthusiasm. It's there, but sometimes misplaced.)
Thane wrote:
arcoviso wrote:
I was amazed by Case 5
Must...overcome jetlag...quickly!
I'm just kidding. Welcome to the forums!
Hey! If you're already settled in, send me a message!
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Spoiler:
The way he says that line really frigging bugs me.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Pierre wrote:
Spoiler: I think your ready for this now
But yeah it's a bit of a shame everything is so easy or 'streamlined' as I'm sure some people will put it.
I think it's mostly down to the fact you can only investigate one or two areas, clues found elsewhere are just given to you by other people. Whereas before you'd have to scan the background for things.
Like looking at 5-2 there's a TONNE of backgrounds with lots of cool things going on, it's a freaking Yokai festival after all. Yet you are never allowed to examine anything there, and it'd would have been perfect to hide some clues in.
More importantly I think it means you miss out on little bits of adorable dialogue. I like all the bonus dialogue from examining random stuff, it leads to funny things like cool Police references and stepladder jokes (though this game just gave you the stepladder joke I suppose). It just felt like it took a lot out of it because of it.
I'm fine with the investigations being easier (though I would've liked clues for Psyche-Lock segments being structured like 3-5). I do miss examining other areas, though. Phoenix could've said, "It doesn't look like there's anything important here so I guess it can't hurt to take a look" or something
But yeah, I saw that comic. The difficulty of the games added a lot of tension and stakes. Plus, there's only ONE segment in this game where the penalty is increased (and it's only a double :( )
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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and Phoenix acted like his old self when you play as him. The only good parts about the game was Simon and non-playable
Phoenix.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Overall my impression after these 5 months is still that Dual Destinies is a good game. Appealing visuals, memorable characters etc.
i still feel the writing was the main drag of the game. It's sinply not good enough for me, and by that i mean that the only reason I could get so hooked on a text-based adventure game like Phoenix Wright in the first place was extraordinary writing. It's simply too stiff and stagnant in the long run in DD and that's always what it comes back to for me. The writing gets the story across but it doesn't make me laugh, be shocked or feel anything in general. It's colorless and doesn't live up to the crisp graphics.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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I'm not writing off the critics of Dual Destinies because it does have problems, but people grossly over exaggerate how bad Yamazaki and Eshiro are compared to Takumi. They're great at emulating the style and it's certainly not close to fan fiction levels
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I'm not trying to cause a shitstorm, but to be honest, I feel like if DD was the exact same game except Yamazaki's name was replaced by Takumi's, people wouldn't complain about the writing and say it was a return to form after the "fan fiction" Investigations series. At worst, people would say the writing was a slight drop in quality
I'm not writing off the critics of Dual Destinies because it does have problems, but people grossly over exaggerate how bad Yamazaki and Eshiro are compared to Takumi. They're great at emulating the style and it's certainly not close to fan fiction levels
I'm not writing off the critics of Dual Destinies because it does have problems, but people grossly over exaggerate how bad Yamazaki and Eshiro are compared to Takumi. They're great at emulating the style and it's certainly not close to fan fiction levels
We'll never know, now will we? A part it is probably just scapegoating, though. As you admitted, DD does have its problems (although the details and severity can vary wildly from person to person :P), and we don't really have any names to put the blame on except Yamazaki. And it's not like everything Takumi has done is sacred ground; a lot of people don't like AJ, and I personally hate JFA.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I'm not trying to cause a shitstorm, but to be honest, I feel like if DD was the exact same game except Yamazaki's name was replaced by Takumi's, people wouldn't complain about the writing and say it was a return to form after the "fan fiction" Investigations series. At worst, people would say the writing was a slight drop in quality
I'm not writing off the critics of Dual Destinies because it does have problems, but people grossly over exaggerate how bad Yamazaki and Eshiro are compared to Takumi. They're great at emulating the style and it's certainly not close to fan fiction levels
I'm not writing off the critics of Dual Destinies because it does have problems, but people grossly over exaggerate how bad Yamazaki and Eshiro are compared to Takumi. They're great at emulating the style and it's certainly not close to fan fiction levels
I actually like some of Yamazaki and Eshiro's tangential ideas. Takumi seems to prefer things a little more down to earth - that is, when he actually can get this series down to earth - but there's no particular problem with expanding on a little silliness. This series began as courtroom drama satire, and that's where it shall stay. I attribute the "quality change" to a different style of writing. Their work isn't better or worse than what Takumi has to offer, really.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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In all the other games I couldn't wait for the Investigation to be over so I could get to court, that kinda one of the main reasons why I didn't enjoy AAI as much, but this one was the exact opposite. I instead couldn't wait for court to be over so I could investigate.
I don't know, but those are just my thoughts so far.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I'm not trying to cause a shitstorm, but to be honest, I feel like if DD was the exact same game except Yamazaki's name was replaced by Takumi's, people wouldn't complain about the writing and say it was a return to form after the "fan fiction" Investigations series. At worst, people would say the writing was a slight drop in quality
I'm not writing off the critics of Dual Destinies because it does have problems, but people grossly over exaggerate how bad Yamazaki and Eshiro are compared to Takumi. They're great at emulating the style and it's certainly not close to fan fiction levels
I'm not writing off the critics of Dual Destinies because it does have problems, but people grossly over exaggerate how bad Yamazaki and Eshiro are compared to Takumi. They're great at emulating the style and it's certainly not close to fan fiction levels
I do not understand this argument.
Are you saying this is how people would react if Takumi wrote the thing and it turned out the same, or if they just flat-out lied about who wrote the story?
While I've seen a few complaints about DD, most of what I've heard/read has been positive in regards to the writing. Believe it or not, people can be objective. And even if they said something negative, it doesn't mean it's due to some belief that everyone else's writing will forever be inferior to that of Takumi's.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Bad Player wrote:
We'll never know, now will we? A part it is probably just scapegoating, though. As you admitted, DD does have its problems (although the details and severity can vary wildly from person to person :P), and we don't really have any names to put the blame on except Yamazaki. And it's not like everything Takumi has done is sacred ground; a lot of people don't like AJ, and I personally hate JFA.
Yeah. I don't like AJ but I like two of the cases in JFA (though I know you don't like 2-4). Yamazaki has flaws. Takumi has flaws, too. A lot of people seem to forget that
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
I actually like some of Yamazaki and Eshiro's tangential ideas. Takumi seems to prefer things a little more down to earth - that is, when he actually can get this series down to earth - but there's no particular problem with expanding on a little silliness. This series began as courtroom drama satire, and that's where it shall stay. I attribute the "quality change" to a different style of writing. Their work isn't better or worse than what Takumi has to offer, really.
I like that Yamazaki is more grounded. I always hated spirit channeling. People complain about the Psyche-Lock retcon in Dual Destinies, but I swear to God that Takumi retconned Spirit Channeling. Also, it's such a focal point in several cases and it just never seemed necessary to me. Granted, I did like 2-2 a lot (though a spirit was never channeled :/ ) and I do love 3-5 (but not as much as everyone else) but spirit channeling nearly made me not progress further in the series when it happened at the end of Case 1-2. Takumi does a pretty good job at blending the two realities, though.
Adrian in black wrote:
I do not understand this argument.
Are you saying this is how people would react if Takumi wrote the thing and it turned out the same, or if they just flat-out lied about who wrote the story?
Are you saying this is how people would react if Takumi wrote the thing and it turned out the same, or if they just flat-out lied about who wrote the story?
Either?
I'm saying that I think complaints about the writing wouldn't be as numerous if it was the exact same game, but Yamazaki's name was swapped out with Takumi's.
Quote:
While I've seen a few complaints about DD, most of what I've heard/read has been positive in regards to the writing. Believe it or not, people can be objective. And even if they said something negative, it doesn't mean it's due to some belief that everyone else's writing will forever be inferior to that of Takumi's.
It's less prominent on this site but there are a lot of Takumi fanboys blind to the fact that Yamazaki makes good cases, too (I'm not saying linkenski is one of them, though. His post just sparked the general hate).
Yamazaki makes great filler cases. Takumi doesn't (that aren't finales). A lot of people think 1-1 is bland and forgettable (but succeeds as a tutorial). Turnabout Samurai is very split down the middle. The VAST majority hate 2-1 and 2-3. A lot of people really like 3-2 but it's split for 3-3 (though for the record, I think 3-2 is weak but 3-3 is pretty good). Even though I like 4-2, pretty much everyone hates it. I won't get started on 4-3
Admittedly, Yamazaki's writing can be a bit cheesier due to him trying to tie things back to a theme (friendship in DD) and I do hope they work on the better killer motives in Dual Destinies (I think AAI-3, AAI-5, AAI2-2, AAI2-3, AAI2-4, and AAI2-5 all have great motives, so it's not like he's incapable. I think he just didn't care)
Browsing other forums and such, it just seems like a lot of the arguments devolve into, "Yamazaki sucks! H-He uses fucking ellipses!" People are WAAAAAAYYYY too harsh on the guy. His writing is certainly not fan-fiction level and I don't even know if people would notice that there's a difference in writers if they didn't know beforehand. The common complaint about Investigations and Dual Destinies is that the cases get "bigger" (spies, smuggling, assassinations) but to me, it just seemed like a natural progression of the series and Takumi would've gotten to that point if he stayed on (Ghost Trick had this kind of stuff). The series can't be the same thing every time. It has to change
My opinion? Takumi writes better stories but Yamazaki writes better mysteries
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Adrian in black wrote:
While I've seen a few complaints about DD, most of what I've heard/read has been positive in regards to the writing.
Hrm, well... The characters were really good (
Of course, it also comes down to what you consider to be the "writing" of this game. The "writing" in this sense is quite different from the "writing" of a novel. Is it the general story? The actual text/dialogue? The translated text?
I think JM's original point is that he suspects people may have been unfairly biased against DD because of the lack of Takumi. We obviously have no way of actually knowing, but I think the complaints against the game wouldn't disappear with a slight name change in the credits. ...Admittedly, placing the blame for those complaints at Yamazaki might have been a bit silly.
EDIT: Darn it JM, don't ninja me xP
How exactly did Takumi retcon spirit channeling? Not saying I don't believe you, I just don't remember any egregious differences between AA/JFA/T&T. And I think the psyche-lock retcon also tied into the general dissatisfaction with how, apart from the existence of Polly and Trucy (and I use that term very lightly with regards to Trucy in DD), DD seemed to forget AJ even existed.
(And finally someone else who agrees that 2-2 relied only upon the idea of spirit channeling, and not spirit channeling itself!)
People generally don't like the end of 1-2, with Mia pretty much bailing you out. However, the ending could have easily been changed (if Nick himself presented the receipt without Mia telling him to), so I like to think of that as just a "mistake" in writing that specific scene. The only case I think is inextricably linked with spirit channeling itself (as opposed to the idea of spirit channeling) is 3-5. The franchise has always had a gigantic "Why don't they just channel the victim and ask them themselves?!" question hanging over its head (which it attempts to handwave away, with limited success), but 3-5 finally did some interesting things with it, with channeling being involved in the crime itself, and cross-examining a spirit.
(...I got no defense for the other gigantic question that has hung over the franchise's head, though--namely, "Why don't they just confirm/deny everyone's innocence with the magatama?!")
You also forgot to mention the use of spirit channeling in 2-4 :P
Quote:
Yamazaki makes great filler cases. Takumi doesn't (that aren't finales).
Sounds legit. ...Except for the last three words.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Bad Player wrote:
I think JM's original point is that he suspects people may have been unfairly biased against DD because of the lack of Takumi. We obviously have no way of actually knowing, but I think the complaints against the game wouldn't disappear with a slight name change in the credits. ...Admittedly, placing the blame for those complaints at Yamazaki might have been a bit silly.
Right. I don't think the complaints about Dual Destinies would disappear completely because it does have actual problems, but I think Yamazaki is really good at emulating the general dialogue, characters, etc of the story that it's not noticeable unless you're aware of the change in the writers. People who claim the writing is like fan-fiction in the post-AJ era because of the lack of Takumi probably wouldn't be saying that if Takumi's name was on it. There's still stuff to complain about and I'm not telling people to stop complaining but a lot of people just throw veiled complaints on the series
Ace Attorney Investigations 2: "The first case is too long and awesome and the rest of the cases are too long and boring and I'm just going to leave it at that without elaborating. The characters also suck"
Quote:
How exactly did Takumi retcon spirit channeling? Not saying I don't believe you, I just don't remember any egregious differences between AA/JFA/T&T.
I don't really think it was explained that well in 1-2. At first, I thought only Phoenix could see that Maya was channeling Mia but that clearly wasn't true based on 2-2. In 1-2, couldn't Mia just say, "That's him. He killed me." I guess you could use the argument that spirit mediums weren't trusted after DL-6, but it seems weird that Phoenix didn't even try. Okay, let's say Phoenix knew it was hopeless. Edgeworth, the Judge, and Mia's murderer have absolutely NO REACTION to the fact that the victim is standing right there. You think Redd White would at least start sweating or you think the Judge would say something. Maybe Edgeworth understood spirit channeling? I have no clue. I just told myself that only Phoenix could see Mia but I guess that wasn't it
Quote:
(...I got no defense for the other gigantic question that has hung over the franchise's head, though--namely, "Why don't they just confirm/deny everyone's innocence with the magatama?!")
You also forgot to mention the use of spirit channeling in 2-4 :P
You also forgot to mention the use of spirit channeling in 2-4 :P
Someone had some explanation for the magatama that's a little reasonable but I don't really buy it. It's not a lie detector, but it only senses when someone is actively trying to hide a secret or something? You think someone would try to hide the fact that they killed someone, though...I don't know. You could do the same with Apollo's bracelet, too
And yeah. My bad :/
Quote:
Sounds legit. ...Except for the last three words.
I added the last three words because some people would consider Rise from the Ashes and Farewell, My Turnabout filler. But we don't need to get into a discussion about the latter
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
It's less prominent on this site but there are a lot of Takumi fanboys blind to the fact that Yamazaki makes good cases, too (I'm not saying linkenski is one of them, though. His post just sparked the general hate).
Yamazaki makes great filler cases. Takumi doesn't (that aren't finales). A lot of people think 1-1 is bland and forgettable (but succeeds as a tutorial). Turnabout Samurai is very split down the middle. The VAST majority hate 2-1 and 2-3. A lot of people really like 3-2 but it's split for 3-3 (though for the record, I think 3-2 is weak but 3-3 is pretty good). Even though I like 4-2, pretty much everyone hates it. I won't get started on 4-3
Admittedly, Yamazaki's writing can be a bit cheesier due to him trying to tie things back to a theme (friendship in DD) and I do hope they work on the better killer motives in Dual Destinies (I think AAI-3, AAI-5, AAI2-2, AAI2-3, AAI2-4, and AAI2-5 all have great motives, so it's not like he's incapable. I think he just didn't care)
Browsing other forums and such, it just seems like a lot of the arguments devolve into, "Yamazaki sucks! H-He uses fucking ellipses!" People are WAAAAAAYYYY too harsh on the guy. His writing is certainly not fan-fiction level and I don't even know if people would notice that there's a difference in writers if they didn't know beforehand. The common complaint about Investigations and Dual Destinies is that the cases get "bigger" (spies, smuggling, assassinations) but to me, it just seemed like a natural progression of the series and Takumi would've gotten to that point if he stayed on (Ghost Trick had this kind of stuff). The series can't be the same thing every time. It has to change
My opinion? Takumi writes better stories but Yamazaki writes better mysteries
Yamazaki makes great filler cases. Takumi doesn't (that aren't finales). A lot of people think 1-1 is bland and forgettable (but succeeds as a tutorial). Turnabout Samurai is very split down the middle. The VAST majority hate 2-1 and 2-3. A lot of people really like 3-2 but it's split for 3-3 (though for the record, I think 3-2 is weak but 3-3 is pretty good). Even though I like 4-2, pretty much everyone hates it. I won't get started on 4-3
Admittedly, Yamazaki's writing can be a bit cheesier due to him trying to tie things back to a theme (friendship in DD) and I do hope they work on the better killer motives in Dual Destinies (I think AAI-3, AAI-5, AAI2-2, AAI2-3, AAI2-4, and AAI2-5 all have great motives, so it's not like he's incapable. I think he just didn't care)
Browsing other forums and such, it just seems like a lot of the arguments devolve into, "Yamazaki sucks! H-He uses fucking ellipses!" People are WAAAAAAYYYY too harsh on the guy. His writing is certainly not fan-fiction level and I don't even know if people would notice that there's a difference in writers if they didn't know beforehand. The common complaint about Investigations and Dual Destinies is that the cases get "bigger" (spies, smuggling, assassinations) but to me, it just seemed like a natural progression of the series and Takumi would've gotten to that point if he stayed on (Ghost Trick had this kind of stuff). The series can't be the same thing every time. It has to change
My opinion? Takumi writes better stories but Yamazaki writes better mysteries
I don't discuss the AA series much outside of these forums, so I admit I haven't run into the level of stupidity that you have.
I honestly thought DD was pretty good for what it was. Yes, I think the original AA trilogy was better in terms of writing, but I could see the effort put forth as well as the potential for the next story. I'm actually
I didn't find DD to be 'fanfiction level' at all either, though I can kind of see the complaint about AAI. I don't think the problem is making the game a little more epic than the last, it's more in how it's handled. I haven't played AAI-2, but case 5 part 2 of AAI-1 is a good example of throwing epic stuff in for the sake of epicness and not caring how it turns out. In that sense, I could see how it gets compared to fanfiction (and some published fiction too, now that I think about it). I won't even get into the Edgeworth characterization. But DD was a total step up from that. Still some flaws, some inconsistent characterization, some fanservice, but the writers left me with the impression that they gave a damn.
Bad Player wrote:
I think JM's original point is that he suspects people may have been unfairly biased against DD because of the lack of Takumi. We obviously have no way of actually knowing, but I think the complaints against the game wouldn't disappear with a slight name change in the credits. ...Admittedly, placing the blame for those complaints at Yamazaki might have been a bit silly.
Well, I understand that, and there is always going to be a handful of those people. Can't reason with those types; it's just best to forget them and move on.
JesusMonroe wrote:
Edgeworth, the Judge, and Mia's murderer have absolutely NO REACTION to the fact that the victim is standing right there. You think Redd White would at least start sweating or you think the Judge would say something. Maybe Edgeworth understood spirit channeling? I have no clue. I just told myself that only Phoenix could see Mia but I guess that wasn't it
It's probably one of those things where if you aren't paying attention, you either won't notice or won't think it a priority in the face of something more important like a murder case.
But Phoenix definitely isn't the only one who can see Mia. In 1-3, Penny Nichols asks Phoenix if Mia!Maya "looks a little different from before" (referring to normal!Maya), and Cody Hackins even warms up to the "nice lady."
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I don't really think it was explained that well in 1-2. At first, I thought only Phoenix could see that Maya was channeling Mia but that clearly wasn't true based on 2-2. In 1-2, couldn't Mia just say, "That's him. He killed me." I guess you could use the argument that spirit mediums weren't trusted after DL-6, but it seems weird that Phoenix didn't even try. Okay, let's say Phoenix knew it was hopeless. Edgeworth, the Judge, and Mia's murderer have absolutely NO REACTION to the fact that the victim is standing right there. You think Redd White would at least start sweating or you think the Judge would say something. Maybe Edgeworth understood spirit channeling? I have no clue. I just told myself that only Phoenix could see Mia but I guess that wasn't it
They never reacted because they didn't believe the victim was resurrected. Regardless of how Maya's appearance changed, she was still sitting in the defendant's seat (by the defense bench, maybe, I dunno) and never got a chance to switch places with anyone. If those people don't believe in spirit channeling, then they'll either ignore it or make up their own explanations.
Besides, if witnesses can explode with lightning coming from nowhere, I'm sure a defendant can change proportions. <- justifiable AA logic
Adrian in black wrote:
It's probably one of those things where if you aren't paying attention, you either won't notice or won't think it a priority in the face of something more important like a murder case.
It's funny because the witnesses often show some really weird breakdowns/reactions. "So what if the witness suddenly turned into the Hulk by chugging down a
Bad Player wrote:
(...I got no defense for the other gigantic question that has hung over the franchise's head, though--namely, "Why don't they just confirm/deny everyone's innocence with the magatama?!")
That'd make things too easy then. And just because someone is hiding a secret about not admitting to the murder doesn't make said person a murderer.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
It's probably one of those things where if you aren't paying attention, you either won't notice or won't think it a priority in the face of something more important like a murder case.
It's funny because the witnesses often show some really weird breakdowns/reactions. "So what if the witness suddenly turned into the Hulk by chugging down a
Well, now, see? There you have it. Witnesses are too busy putting all their energy into testifying and transforming. Judges, prosecutor, bailiff, and audience are busy watching the show
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Adrian in black wrote:
Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
It's probably one of those things where if you aren't paying attention, you either won't notice or won't think it a priority in the face of something more important like a murder case.
It's funny because the witnesses often show some really weird breakdowns/reactions. "So what if the witness suddenly turned into the Hulk by chugging down a
Well, now, see? There you have it. Witnesses are too busy putting all their energy into testifying and transforming. Judges, prosecutor, bailiff, and audience are busy watching the show
This sounds more plausible than anything else. It explains why witnesses are so completely exhausted by the end of their cross-examination.
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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JesusMonroe wrote:
I'm not trying to cause a shitstorm, but to be honest, I feel like if DD was the exact same game except Yamazaki's name was replaced by Takumi's, people wouldn't complain about the writing and say it was a return to form after the "fan fiction" Investigations series. At worst, people would say the writing was a slight drop in quality
I'm not writing off the critics of Dual Destinies because it does have problems, but people grossly over exaggerate how bad Yamazaki and Eshiro are compared to Takumi. They're great at emulating the style and it's certainly not close to fan fiction levels
I'm not writing off the critics of Dual Destinies because it does have problems, but people grossly over exaggerate how bad Yamazaki and Eshiro are compared to Takumi. They're great at emulating the style and it's certainly not close to fan fiction levels
I've got problems with Mr. Yamazaki's writing, but I've admitted on several occasions that I feel like he did a fairly good job writing Dual Destinies for the most part. Aside from the ellipses, the dark age of the law nonsense, the final case and Athena, it really does feel like any other Ace Attorney game to me most of the time.
If you want me to describe why I generally don't like his writing, I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to accurately point out what bothers me. It just feels like his dialogues are lacking in subtlety and charm, and his case scenarios feel like they're just trying to be more impressive than they actually are, if that makes sense.
That, and he treats Edgeworth's logic like it's some kind of superpower.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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I loved Athena, I thought her character was great. I liked how her back story was fleshed out in her debut game,unlike Apollo.
That being said, I loved how Athena and Apollo's back stories were intertwined and how it was somewhat believable. It was great to see Apollo's character development succeed too.
I loved the OST, however I thought that "Pursuit ~ Keep Pressing On" was a little underwhelming. That being said...."Courtroom Révolutionnaire". Man, I could marry that piece.
All the breakdowns were awesome.
As were the cases. The DLC was my favorite though.
But there were some things I didn't like:
Spoiler: Phoenix's Character.
Spoiler: Other minor stuff that annoyed me
....I can't believe I haven't written about what I think of the game until now...
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Thane wrote:
That, and he treats Edgeworth's logic like it's some kind of superpower.
But it is!
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Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Bad Player wrote:
I've seen that before, but it still made me giggle. I imagine Mr. Yamazaki standing in that crowd being impressed.
No but seriously, without spoiling anything, there's this one particular scene in Gyakuten Kenji 2 where Edgeworth says he "has to use 'that'", and Kay is all like "really?!", and Edgeworth says something about it being like kicking a puppy. Like, he's just about to extract some information from a witness! What in the actual blazes?
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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That really bugs me because Blackquill's only there to give Athena a really tiny bit of character development.
It would make perfect sense for Klavier to have prosecuted that case given hi's reason for being there.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Klonoahedgehog wrote:
Wouldn't it have been better if Klavier was the prosecutor in case 3?
That really bugs me because Blackquill's only there to give Athena a really tiny bit of character development.
It would make perfect sense for Klavier to have prosecuted that case given hi's reason for being there.
That really bugs me because Blackquill's only there to give Athena a really tiny bit of character development.
It would make perfect sense for Klavier to have prosecuted that case given hi's reason for being there.
Indeed, Simon and Athena barely interact throughout the entire game, which just makes 5-5 feel forced. The thing is, why would Klavier go up against Athena? He didn't show any character development when they sent away both his brother and best friend to jail, presumably to await their death sentences.
I'm of the opinion that he should have prosecuted the DLC case, however. It's a lot sillier (and doesn't suit Blackquill aside from the bird thing), and a rematch between him and Phoenix is in order.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
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Thane wrote:
Klonoahedgehog wrote:
Wouldn't it have been better if Klavier was the prosecutor in case 3?
That really bugs me because Blackquill's only there to give Athena a really tiny bit of character development.
It would make perfect sense for Klavier to have prosecuted that case given hi's reason for being there.
That really bugs me because Blackquill's only there to give Athena a really tiny bit of character development.
It would make perfect sense for Klavier to have prosecuted that case given hi's reason for being there.
Indeed, Simon and Athena barely interact throughout the entire game, which just makes 5-5 feel forced. The thing is, why would Klavier go up against Athena? He didn't show any character development when they sent away both his brother and best friend to jail, presumably to await their death sentences.
I'm of the opinion that he should have prosecuted the DLC case, however. It's a lot sillier (and doesn't suit Blackquill aside from the bird thing), and a rematch between him and Phoenix is in order.
He said he wanted to bring hi's mentors killer to justice... So wouldn't it have made more sense for him to prosecute the case? Also i just want to hear hi's sweet objection more.
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