GS6 Ideas : Kingdom of Khura'in (GS6)

Re: GS6 Ideas

Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:51 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Geo McKarter wrote:

What about olympic-related murders? Like, someone being impaled by a javelin or someone's head crushed by a hammer throw? XD

I'm having trouble picturing how this could work as a mystery.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:49 am

AireyVerkhovensky

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Geo McKarter wrote:

What about olympic-related murders? Like, someone being impaled by a javelin or someone's head crushed by a hammer throw? XD

I'm having trouble picturing how this could work as a mystery.

Maybe your client is some javelin/shot-put star, and was framed by the murder weapon...? I guess if someone died because someone else chucked a spear through them, the first suspect would be the guy who does that for a living.
Although the only really unique element there would be the setting; both of those are just more variations on stabby-stabby or blunt force trauma.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:42 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Well, that much is straightforward, but the problem would come in regarding the weapons themselves. First off, javelins are pretty darn long and are pretty hefty as a result; heavyweight hammers, even heftier. They're not practical to bring along to a murder scene. Second, such equipment is carefully attended to because they're potentially dangerous and all are accounted for before the events begin. Finally, the only viable suspects for this murder would be limited to those who can lift and throw these things at all (especially to strike a head with a hammer).

That isn't to say that we can't set a case at the Olympic games. Perhaps someone ended up drugging an athlete with sleeping medicine just before her performance... like diving. Finally, a death by drowning... but not before a belly flop. "Ooh, that's gotta hurt!"

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:52 am

AireyVerkhovensky

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Well, that much is straightforward, but the problem would come in regarding the weapons themselves. First off, javelins are pretty darn long and are pretty hefty as a result; heavyweight hammers, even heftier. They're not practical to bring along to a murder scene. Second, such equipment is carefully attended to because they're potentially dangerous and all are accounted for before the events begin. Finally, the only viable suspects for this murder would be limited to those who can lift and throw these things at all (especially to strike a head with a hammer).

That isn't to say that we can't set a case at the Olympic games. Perhaps someone ended up drugging an athlete with sleeping medicine just before her performance... like diving. Finally, a death by drowning... but not before a belly flop. "Ooh, that's gotta hurt!"

I imagine the suspect would be the coach then, because not only do they have access to the diver's water bottle(?), but they would also be the only one who could force the drugged-up diver to go through with the dive.
And how the real killer managed to do the latter point... something to do with gambling, I think...? Since you'd think a diver would be kind of wary about being too tired to dive properly, even if they don't realize they've been drugged. So there would need to be a reason why the diver MUST go through with it, even if would be a bad and/or potentially dangerous performance.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:01 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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That's where the juicy drama comes in. I wouldn't say that couch is completely innocent, ya catch my drift? S/He just wouldn't be directly responsible for drugging the poor diver.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:04 pm

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My idea was that the victim was killed during the event itself. Either he died of atroquinine before being hit by the javelin, or that he was shot in the head by a handgun with silencer before his head was crushed by the thrown hammer.

Now that I think about it, this sounds pretty dumb :sadshoe:

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:05 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Dang, that sounds pretty intense. Who (plural) would go out of their ways to kill this one athlete? We'd probably be better off without the victim, then.

Hmm... actually, you're on to something here. It may seem like overkill, but a murder that may have multiple potential causes of death is one of my favorite kinds of mysteries. Just how did the victim die should be a question that is asked from time to time. Sure, it seems like forensics is the only team that actually gives reliable info, but on the occasion, even their grip slips.

Thinking about it, my idea of a case starring a gang war may be a little unlike AA. We already had a gangster client, anyway...

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:03 pm

NinjaMonkey

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There is a murder backstage at the Wonder Bar, and before the murder occurs, Trucy overhears the victim and the defendant arguing amongst themselves and finds herself being called as a witness by the prosecution.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:10 am

Gerkuman

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I have some ideas, but I'd rather save them for my own case if I can get my brain around the tools. Ah, never mind, they'll never use 'em.

What I would like is a 'Joker Jury' type of situation, where it's a trial by criminals. Maybe in an abandoned building.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:38 pm

NinjaMonkey

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I can't believe that we've gone 7 games without a case featuring a husband/wife accused of murdering their wife/husband. I know it's over played, but I'm sure that the writers could put a new twist on it.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:16 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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I'm still opting for fish archery on a farm. :3

NinjaMonkey wrote:

I can't believe that we've gone 7 games without a case featuring a husband/wife accused of murdering their wife/husband. I know it's over played, but I'm sure that the writers could put a new twist on it.

How about the husband's ex-wife and the wife's ex-husband do them in? Two murders for the price of one! Well, of course even this has been overplayed, but at least we'll have an exciting case where we have to find two murderers accusing each other. There's no more love...

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:25 am

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Strangers on a Train?

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:07 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Yes, but the main difference is that one is arrested and tried for a murder, the wrong one, and it's up to our lawyers to find the right killer. On the way, though, they find that their client is also a murderer, and there's some concern over the matter of freeing a criminal... until their client is arrested again, for the right murder. Then everyone's good. :)

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:37 am

dimentiorules

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I'd like to see a case where the victim is a child. We've never seen that before, and it would be an easy way to make the villain incredibly heinous, plus it would be a good way to cause drama.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:46 am

JaytheBluPirate

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How about a case, where the crime was thought to be murder, when it's actually an accidental death. Just think how difficult it would be to prove that it wasn't murder, but an accidently death. I don't think this have been done.

Think of it this way: Victim A accidently shoot himself to death, and Suspect B happens to be nearby. Suspect B would pick up the murder weapon, just so Witness C will think that Suspect B shot Victim A. That way, the defense attorney will try to prove that it was a accidental death and not murder.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:06 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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BlueJaythePirate wrote:

How about a case, where the crime was thought to be murder, when it's actually an accidental death. Just think how difficult it would be to prove that it wasn't murder, but an accidently death. I don't think this have been done.

Think of it this way: Victim A accidently shoot himself to death, and Suspect B happens to be nearby. Suspect B would pick up the murder weapon, just so Witness C will think that Suspect B shot Victim A. That way, the defense attorney will try to prove that it was a accidental death and not murder.

It has been done before, in DD.

And technically, for the prosecution to build a case for murder, there has to be enough reason for a death to be considered a murder (i.e. Suspect B has a clear motive AND there's decisive evidence that this person fired the gun, not just held it). Otherwise, it just makes it seem like a Payneful case that can be wrapped up within an hour of gameplay.

Calling it now. From hence forth, someone in-game will make the phrase "Payneful case" a thing.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:24 am

NinjaMonkey

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

How about the husband's ex-wife and the wife's ex-husband do them in? Two murders for the price of one! Well, of course even this has been overplayed, but at least we'll have an exciting case where we have to find two murderers accusing each other. There's no more love...

That's not was I was thinking of, no.

dimentiorules wrote:

I'd like to see a case where the victim is a child. We've never seen that before, and it would be an easy way to make the villain incredibly heinous, plus it would be a good way to cause drama.

Although I liked the slightly darker tone that was present in Dual Destinies, I think that this is too dark.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:32 am

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I'd like to see a prosecutor that doesn't care about their win record- someone that wishes to convict only the people that are actually guilty, even at the cost of losing the case, sort of like the ADAs on the various Law and Orders. (D.A. McCoy knows what I'm talking about.)

Spoiler: Trilogy+AJ

What I'm talking about is a prosecutor that knows that the law makes mistakes, and refuses to indict innocent people- maybe because a member of their family was convicted for a crime they didn't commit. I'm in the early planning stages of my own fangame, and this sort of idea is at the core of the prosecutor character I'm fleshing out.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:09 pm

Nearavex

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The problem is, that's what they went for with Klavier - which in the end ended up making him a poor rival.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:30 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Nearavex wrote:

The problem is, that's what they went for with Klavier - which in the end ended up making him a poor rival.

No, no. What made him a "poor rival" was other things... like the way he liked holding Apollo's hand throughout all the trials where they faced off. He's just too friendly with him in or out of court, and whenever Apollo looks like he's stuck - which is obviously a lot - he lends a little hint here and there and patiently waits for him to catch up. It's most egregious during 4-3, where even Trucy is doing the same to him.

Otherwise, he comes off just as "that prosecutor guy with the guitar" who seems to show up out of nowhere. By DD, even Apollo doesn't treat him with enough respect.

Yeaaah, that's not a rivalry. That's a guy who thinks he's in a rivalry, but Blackquill played that role against Apollo better. ~~It's so bad that you have to feel sorry for the guy.~~

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:54 am

Aquabreeze

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Nearavex wrote:

The problem is, that's what they went for with Klavier - which in the end ended up making him a poor rival.

I disagree- I think Klavier was a poor rival because he was a bit gimmicky. I mean, think about it- a prosecutor AND a german-born superstar musician with

Spoiler: AJ Case 1

? It sounds like someone's bad OC, except canon. I'm not saying Klavier is a bad character or anything, but the whole famous rock star angle made him gimmicky to me- even if his music career did end up factoring into the story quite nicely (imo). Besides, that aspect of Klavier's character (where he cares about justice over win record) is barely touched upon, if it's even mentioned.

It's been heavily implied throughout the series that the Prosecutor's Office is very corrupt, and most will do anything to win their case, instead of achieving justice. Throw into that mix a prosecutor that truly believes in justice, even if it means losing the case? That's plenty to go on. You don't need to add a successful music career or a German accent or a (see above spoiler). Revolve the prosecutor's character around that idea, and you've got something really, really interesting. Look at Edgeworth, for example. You see him come to this conclusion through the events of the series. And did he need any gimmicks? No! He's one of the most popular characters in the entire franchise!

I don't think this idea would make for a bad rival. Far from it! I mean, I could point out how quality Edgeworth is again, but I think a prosecutor like this might make Phoenix or any other attorney have to do some soul-searching or even question their client. Like "Wow, the prosecutor doesn't care about how many cases they've won... but they're indicting my client anyway. They really believe he's guilty! I wonder..." That could make for some awesome dramatic tension.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:52 pm

dimentiorules

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Aquabreeze wrote:

Nearavex wrote:

The problem is, that's what they went for with Klavier - which in the end ended up making him a poor rival.

I disagree- I think Klavier was a poor rival because he was a bit gimmicky. I mean, think about it- a prosecutor AND a german-born superstar musician with

Spoiler: AJ Case 1

? It sounds like someone's bad OC, except canon. I'm not saying Klavier is a bad character or anything, but the whole famous rock star angle made him gimmicky to me- even if his music career did end up factoring into the story quite nicely (imo). Besides, that aspect of Klavier's character (where he cares about justice over win record) is barely touched upon, if it's even mentioned.

The only prosecutors in the series that AREN'T gimmicky are Edgeworth, Manfred Von Karma, and the Paynes. Every other prosecutor has a gimmick or "quirk". Franziska's gimmick is her whip, Godot's gimmick is his coffee, and Simon Blackquill's gimmick is that he's a samurai. Klavier isn't the only one that's gimmicky, they're almost all gimmicky.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:34 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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^ MVK? His gimmick is his intimidation. At first it seemed like it's just how he was, but eventually it got to the point that Phoenix questioned his life.

Besides, I think "gimmick" isn't quite the right word you guys are looking for. Sure, Klav's got a lot of quirks, but he doesn't rely on much gimmickry. His problem is that he was made to look attractive from several different angles, but sort of missed the mark on all of them.

Well, okay. I guess I have to give him some points for his looks and his air guitar. There is plenty to do with air guitar. Makes me sad we didn't see in during the mock trial in 5-3, though.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:32 am

dimentiorules

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Is it just me, or did Klavier's model in GS5 look a little... off? It just didn't look right compared to the sprite from GS4.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:22 am

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It did. He looked older and uglier, and if I recall correctly he had a wonky eye as well.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:34 am

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Aquabreeze wrote:

Nearavex wrote:

The problem is, that's what they went for with Klavier - which in the end ended up making him a poor rival.

I disagree- I think Klavier was a poor rival because he was a bit gimmicky. I mean, think about it- a prosecutor AND a german-born superstar musician with

Spoiler: AJ Case 1

That's kinda off the mark, there. For one, it was recently stated that Klavier isn't German, he just studied there.

Spoiler: AJ

But the problem is pretty much as Nearavex said, Klavier was way too hand-holdey. Once you've cast sufficient reasonable doubt on the real perpetrator, he starts helping as much as he can. His lack of real opposition doesn't add any tension whatsoever.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:06 am

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So maybe I'm a bit off on the specifics, but I do think they added too many ~~gimmicks~~ different aspects to Klavier's character. And yeah, I think he is a bit too hand-holdy on the stand. But I still think that a character like the one I was talking about could add something really, really interesting to the story- but it has to be done properly.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:28 am

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The main antagonists are a vigilante group responsible for the deaths of several corrupt officials, and the leader is finally revealed and arrested in the last case.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:42 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Smithee wrote:

The main antagonists are a vigilante group responsible for the deaths of several corrupt officials, and the leader is finally revealed and arrested in the last case.

Actually, for some reason, I feel like this could be pulled off in DGS instead.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:25 pm

MBr

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What separates Edgeworth from Klavier is that while they hold the same ideal of getting the right verdict, Edgeworth does this by pushing Phoenix, constantly fighting his contradictions so Phoenix has to form a perfect argument with no holes (I'm not sure how to word this). Edgeworth appears to be doing his job as prosecutor, but he's really trying to get Phoenix to fight back just as hard.

Klavier tries to guide Apollo once he thinks he knows who the real culprit is. Plus, there's no reason for him to oppose Apollo, and I think this was a wasted opportunity. When Apollo first meets Klavier in 4-2, Klavier says something like "I finally have the chance to meet the man who convicted my bro." But this tension is lost when he displays how open he is to Apollo.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:53 pm

Going for Miles

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MBr wrote:

When Apollo first meets Klavier in 4-2, Klavier says something like "I finally have the chance to meet the man who convicted my bro." But this tension is lost when he displays how open he is to Apollo.

Yeah, I thought he'd have some kind of vendetta against Apollo for it, but it's more of an off-hand comment, like "Hi, so you're the one who got him thrown in jail... sup?"

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:09 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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MBr wrote:

But this tension is lost when he displays how open he is to Apollo.

And is replaced by a different tension. You'd think he'd actually be pretty suspicious by how open he acts despite the fact, and in the end, all it turns out to be is that "he's just like that".

I'm still waiting on that twist when Klav reveals he's actually been stalking Apollo for some unexpected reason.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:28 pm

luck

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Actually, I was thinking that Klavier was going to be the final boss during the whole game. I thought that since they always pulled out the 'the jerkass prosecutor was not so bad in the end', they would reverse it and make 'the nice prosecutor was evil all along'.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:15 pm

NinjaMonkey

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The Wright and Co. Law Offices receive a defence request from a soldier accused of murdering a senior officer. Phoenix/Apollo/Athena has to defend the soldier in a military court.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:14 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Why a military court? Why not just a case in the plain ol' district court? Iirc, military courts work differently than the usual criminal cases. (Besides, DGS sort of got there first. I dunno; maybe Ryuu/Holmes will get to face off against a soldier adversary?)

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:52 pm

NinjaMonkey

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Why a military court? Why not just a case in the plain ol' district court?

The district court is used if a soldier commits a crime against a civilian. A military court would be used if a soldier commits a crime against a fellow soldier, as in my post above.

Quote:

Iirc, military courts work differently than the usual criminal cases.

So? There was an episode of Matlock where a soldier got the titular character to represent him. Therefore, I don't see why we couldn't have an AA case based on the same premise. Besides, it would be nice to see Phoenix try to deal with the differences.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:07 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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But that's the thing. Why bother with a military tribunal when we can just stick with the same courthouse? We can still bring soldiers into the equation; nothing wrong with that.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:58 am

Aquabreeze

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

But that's the thing. Why bother with a military tribunal when we can just stick with the same courthouse? We can still bring soldiers into the equation; nothing wrong with that.

Because a military tribunal might make for some interesting storytelling. If a military court is different from a civilian court, then there's different traditions and terminology that whichever lawyer- and by extension, the player- would have to adjust for. Changing the rules a bit, even for a single case, might make for a nice shake-up for experienced players.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:06 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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I'm taking a view in terms of storytelling, though. It wouldn't quite make sense for them to suddenly switch over to a military tribunal - especially because it's got "different rules" - for a single case. If they're taking that direction, then expect a full game about it.

Or do it the PLvsAA / DGS way: find an excuse to travel between two completely different locations and star the rest of the game in the second one.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:19 am

Aquabreeze

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

I'm taking a view in terms of storytelling, though. It wouldn't quite make sense for them to suddenly switch over to a military tribunal - especially because it's got "different rules" - for a single case. If they're taking that direction, then expect a full game about it.

Or do it the PLvsAA / DGS way: find an excuse to travel between two completely different locations and star the rest of the game in the second one.

Well, why not? They could come up with a reason. Maybe a recurring character needs a military trial, but they only trust Phoenix to defend them. Maybe Maggey Byrde joined the military, or something along those lines. There's a bit of suspension of disbelief, sure, but they could pull it off.

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