Well I suppose it sounds spiteful because...well

I'd sooner be gracious in defeat to Zero than kill everyone 3/4s of the way through the game on a guess.

If I had been Zero I'd consider it a victory for me in spirit.

Also what about the bomb? I said several times I couldn't leave and as we tracked the items it was clear I hadn't picked up any.

I don't know what else I could have reasonably done to not be Zero short of giving out full trust (but proper use of trust is important here.) I worked hard with others to achieve a goal. I felt we were making some real progress in triangulating on Zero.

Also regarding killing me through door 1 why couldn't you have still kept that as an option since the bomb wasn't going anywhere?

I don't think you should put words in Franzise's mouth about the intention of the bomb. After all even if you did run the first one this one is substantially different from the last. Also its not like a "Solid formula" for this game has been forged yet. After all this is only the second running ever.

---

Except I thought it was the end of the game. I've said many times that I didn't think the game was going past phase 1

Remember in the first mafia game on this forum when I thought you and Lida were mafia, Ami shot me on a guess, and she ended the game? She knew if she was wrong it would end the game. Shit happens

Do you really want me to explain this again? Read any post of mine on the last page

There was nothing that made me to believe that I would be messing up the MAMA

I mean, if that was your (JM's) plan during phase 4, you shoulda talked it over with Franzise to be safe.

I also think you should've made a bigger effort to barter with the explosion.

I don't think it was bad enough to be punished though.

Also Jumpfight, you should have asked about doing it with full knowledge of the bombs being armed to prevent Lucky from winning. Franzise's response there seems to imply that you shouldn't have opened the doors because it would kill your character.

Due to the nature of this game, it's sketchy

Let's say you make a mafia game without any mafia, yet all cop reports will return "guilty." Players keep killing other players but it's a no-flip setup so there's no way to be sure if any of it is real

That's what I'm kind of feeling. I wanted to prevent "mafia" from winning and I don't think I can be blamed for being wrong when the actual conclusion was "there is no mafia!"

I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the game, I did. But if the GM can alter the BASIC rules of the game (yes, I know there isn't much of a precedent but she says right in the OP "don't let Zero escape!") then it's not a stretch to think a player can plan what I did

If you want a bright side, consider this. Franzise obviously made this setup to create a lot of infighting and discord in the group. Isn't it kind of poetic that the game ended with that discord hit a boiling point and killing everyone?

The moral of the story is: trust everyone, which ironically is the best solution to the prisoner's dilemma for a group

Also, always vote all-betray first round

Man, if this really was a "no-Zero" setup, game theorists could have a field day with this one.

Once again, I do apologize if I was mean to anyone.

I guess the point of this game was to escape and find out there was no Zero... if there really was none. Maybe it was an eight-link or even seven-link circular chain which we were supposed to find out, maybe with Zero being outside that chain.

---

so since the games over already i can confirm i was an esper that knew slezak was zero

pierre what made you think i was zero? just curious.

His role said you were Zero

This is what I thought but it kind of skews the game in Zero's favor. We definitely weren't supposed to talk about our roles and I doubt that Franzise wanted us to be like "Hey, I'm VANILLA and suspicious of ____"

I did send this to Franzise D1 phase 1, though. I'll give myself a pat on the back

Guess I'm not nearly as open-minded as I usually brag about being.

I should've been willing to accept a multiple-Esper game where the goal was to figure that out and realize we were all supposed to trust each other.

---

Why were we wrong, though?

I mean thinking from a game perspective, it makes sense. Franzise just wanted to fuck with us

But how did every single esper--all knowing beings of space and time--get it wrong?

So I can confirm that my role was that I knew Mr.Giggles was Zero now...

Seems like most or all players had the same role...we will just have to wait until Franzise posts the ending write-up.

EDIT: Maybe we all remember stuff from different timelines?

---

It's a conspiracy. Brother hacked the Morphogenetic Field to implant specific "X is Zero" answers attuned to each of our frequencies. That's why we Espers all received a different "X is Zero" message.

---

Pfft we hardly got tricked we just werebt sure what the rules were.

Like I said I was trying to triangulate everyone who had a fake zero with JM before the end. It why I was so surprised it went off like that.

---

Oh cool this ended right when I wouldn't have been able to particpate anymore anyway. Things of note:

I was an esper who knew jumpfight was zero. Big shock.
I lied to Slezak about being forced into betraying him and cold because I figured having them on my side later would help. Then I ended up killing cold, and thought I could make him kill my target with Ami if she came back.
I actually had no intention of leaving without everyone (besides jumpfight), I just wanted to have 9 points in case someone else pulled the lever early. Oh well. I just figured making everyone think I didn't want them alive would make them play more carefully.
Also: Every single QT with me contains a lie or 5. I was still hiding things from my kill partner up to the end. That wasn't personal, it was just that knowledge is power and I figured that I shouldn't trust anyone at all until they proved themselves, which... Well, in retrospect, wasn't possible to my standards.

Since:

Jumpfight is evil -> Anyone who trusts him is evil -> Anyone who trusts anyone who trusts him is evil, etc.

EDIT: Oh and Jumpfight, but that one was obvious. I wouldn't trust the guy raving about how he wants to kill me either.

That ended up taking out a lot of people from my trusted circle.

Last thing, why did anyone trust me at all? I never did anything trustworthy, but everyone sans cesar and ami was at least willing to talk to me a bit.

---

As I said many times, Zero won't betray at 5 BP

And jumpfight WAS innocent! Hoorah!

Yeah, I figured there wasn't actually a zero around the end of the first ambidex game, but without an enemy, this game didn't feel as purposeful, so I just kept going after a kill anyway. I figured if I manage to kill two people, things would just kinda work their way out.

---

I didn't especially trust you all THAT much. Like I said I didn't care if you betrayed me as much so long as you helped me. And again by virtue of not being Cold you were therefore alright.



Well sure...until he murdered all those other innocent people at the place with your help

---

Well, I was told constantly throughout the game that jumpfight and Cold were "playing me" so it seems that I was right in placing my trust in them

Actually, speaking of that, why did you come up with the theory that Zero knew everybody's role (so jumpfight and Cold were trying to trick me)? If you knew your role was the same as mine and Slezak's was also the same, then wouldn't your theory be moot? After all, Zero would've tried to get the trust of you and Slezak as well instead of just me

You wound me Pierre. I THOUGHT WHAT WE HAD WAS SPECIAL.

Nah, but you were right not to trust me. I would've played the exact same way if I was zero though.

---

For the record, there will be another game. Different from this one and the one before (AB Game is substituted for something new, everybody has a separate win condition, etc)

I was gonna start it the day ZE3 was announced (TODAAAAAAAY!!!!!) but I don't think anyone wants to jump into another Nonary Game anytime soon and wants things to cool down. So...stay tuned~

I was going off the mindset that not all powers are the same and therefore there's no guarantee Zero would be "Vanilla". In your game, Espers knew where the items were and I knew their power was different already and I'd always felt Zero was underpowered in that game.

Fluffwise it makes perfect sense for Zero to know everything about the game. The Participants, the location of items, the puzzles, after all Zero is the individual who arranged it all. I considered it a potential power for Zero one that would balance out the "everyone on Zero" odds.

Also I didn't know much regarding your role (I kept flipping between you or Jumpy as Zero's assistant) and only confirmed Trace as an Esper in like the last day or so before the bomb.

---

I'm ready right now

Can you kill one person to save many?

Big complex moral questions like that definitely need some context before answering in my book.

Anyway when we getting the write up Franzise? I'm DYING to know the secret.

---

Huh? What secret? Everyone thought someone else was zero and there was no zero. Is there any more to this?

---

Is that the case? I always assumed there was someone as Zero, it's just that everyone who thought there was a Zero had false information. After all JM's clue confirmed there was a Zero.

Why didn't you reveal the clue by the way? I've seen it and I can't see any particular reason there would be a need to keep it secret.

---

Wrong thread. Anyway, my clue? What does that mean? Or are you talking to someone else?

EDIT: I'm dumb

---

Last edited by MrGiggles on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Because I wanted the input device from Slezak

I mean, I told you the clue confirmed there was a Zero and that's the only useful info we get from it so I didn't really hide it. I just had to make Slezak think there was something else

Oh and I'm also interested in the write-up

How long had it been since everything collapsed? Since the deafening noise fell silent and the world went black? Minutes? Hours? Days? A week and change? It was impossible to tell.


...okay, fine, it was the last one. Let's wrap this up already.

Oh, hey, looks like Trace checked himself out already. Someone be a dear and fill him in when you see him? Same goes for Sleeping Beauty.


Anyway...yeah. This is the ending you guys chose, huh? Not what I expected.

Of course, if everything went according to plan, it wouldn't be very interesting, now would it?


"There are some who are born with an extraordinary way of thinking. There are some who are born with an extraordinary amount of untapped potential. Rarely is one gifted with both of these things, but that was the case in regards to the one who would eventually become known as Zero.

"Zero had a vision for the world. Most would consider it too extreme, or even insane, but to Zero, it made perfect sense; what didn't make sense was the way the world was now. Zero had the ability to make that vision a reality. However, there existed several others with a similar amount of potential who had the capacity to stop Zero. If Zero acted hastily, those who opposed the vision would likely move to end it before it could become a reality.

"Therefore, Zero came up with a plan that would bring those that would stand in the way together for a test. If Zero defeated those gifted individuals, it would not only eliminate Zero's rivals, it would prove Zero's intelligence and logic was superior and that Zero's vision must be the correct path for the future.

"This is why Zero created the Nonary Game."


That's the diary page Neptune found! Sadly, nobody got a chance to find the next page behind the next set of doors...


"While Zero was successful in catching the gifted and starting the Nonary Game, nobody could have predicted the repercussions for doing so. Several of the eight collected by Zero, who were simply normal humans before entering the Game, found themselves with remarkable knowledge and powers simply by participating in the Game. One theory is that the mental and emotional stress from the Nonary Game was the key to unlocking those individuals' dormant potential. Whatever the case, Zero had inadvertently strengthened the resistance. Worse, Zero's own potential remained untapped.

"It was very fortunate for Zero that she had confided her plans to me, and that I was gifted with the power to help her defeat her enemies. Because of that, I was able to sacrifice myself to allow Zero to win the Nonary Game. I doubt I will ever be able to see Zero's new world order for myself, but knowing that I helped to bring it about is enough.

"...I can't even begin to imagine what would happen if I allowed myself to stop thinking that."


...oh, and here's the final bomb code! 3MXTAPNSG

You might notice it has nine letters like the others. Well, a number and eight letters, but let's not pick nits, okay? If you apply the key, 345678912, to it, you'll get 0ISNTHERE.


So yeah. There wasn't a Zero in this game because Zero is already out there in the world.

There's no bomber, serial killer, any of that either. You're all just normal folks playing a game that's supposed to get you ready to face the real Zero. After Zero escaped and murdered the rest of the players, she set her plan into action. Apparently she finally awakened soon after leaving the site of the first Game. Of course, there were people opposed to Zero, but it's not like regular people can stand up to her. Soooo they did a little investigating, eventually discovered the building where the Nonary Game was played, and found...


Me.




Or rather, they found the computer I was stored on. Bet you thought I was going to say I was the traitor in the first game, huh?

To be honest, I don't know what happened to her. She's probably dead. She was locked away for years and I'm pretty sure Zero never went back for her. She had a lot of time to record her thoughts and memories on one of the PCs she found in that place, though, which is what that resistance group found when they went snooping for leads on how to beat Zero. Boy, were they mad when they found out what happened to the other players... I was the only information they had on the Nonary Game, though, so in exchange for giving them advice on how to construct their own game and running it as the game master, I got to, uh, not be deleted. Of course, I gave them a couple ideas of my own, like hiding those neat little items in different parts of the rooms so they aren't guaranteed to go to the first person who runs in there. Then there's the bomb, which was supposed to dissuade anyone from leaving until they'd thoroughly explored all the rooms, which would hopefully have led to enough clues to suggest the false memories were wrong...


Looking back, I guess that miiiiiiiiiight have been a little too dirty a trick, but I hope you won't be too mad at me for it.

You all volunteered for this little experiment, I know you remember that much!






...So, the experiment. How was it? Did it work? Do you feel any differently? Did you learn anything? For what it's worth, I did.



The program should be coming to an end soon, so I'll just finish up by saying I hope, if you didn't have a good time, you at least had an interesting one. Thanks for playing the Nonary Game.



FRAN-Z.EXE HAS SHUT DOWN

ALL PLAYERS PREPARE TO EXIT NONARY.EXE

---

Haha so it's not "Everybody loses, including Zero" it's "Everybody loses, Zero wins" as all his rivals got blown up. Though I'd hardly say it's the ending we 'chose'.

Nice twist.

I also really like that you tied it into the "canon" of the first game as well. That's a really cool touch.

---

I wasn't in the first game. I have no idea what's going on. I killed an innocent guy, got injected, and then got blown up.

It was a good day.

---

As the results finally appeared on the screen, I tensed up. There was no Zero... at least not here. Kind of hard to stop Zero from escaping when Zero was never here to begin with. I felt horrible and was about to beat myself up about the whole thing when...

Ha ha... Ha... Hahahahahahahahaha! Oh, you got me! Good show, Franzise!

It had suddenly clicked in my head. This was a training exercise. We weren't expected to just know how this game went; we were meant to learn from the experience.

I was about to call myself a fool for not thinking outside the box and considering this situation with a ring of false "espers." I gotta say though, I am starting to think that was intentional. I look forward with much anticipation to the next Nonary round.

I have to apologize to my fellow players. For the duration of the game, I continued to hold the assumption that there was a distinct enemy and that I'd somehow "lucked out" by knowing that a certain player was Zero. It didn't help that my life was on the line after I went against Neptune. From that point on, I was ready to hinder Neptune at all costs... and the one whom I thought was Zero. Perhaps, given the next set of numbered doors, I would've had enough time to arrive on the same page. Unfortunately, we were not given that chance.

Anyway, since nobody was Zero and everybody blew up, I guess that's another win for Zero.

I proceeded to close the 3DS with a gentle touch. I picked it up and held it close. I closed my eyes and drifted into deep thought. I had a lot of introspective reflection to do and plenty of time to do it.

---

Addendum: I really did like the flavo(u)r text you wrote for that ending. Overall the game was well-written. I had a fun time. I was sad to see the game end prematurely, but I am beginning to think it couldn't be helped. I now wish I had had the courage and humility to tell JM that I didn't understand what he was getting at. I will be looking forward to the next round in any case.

---

Usually not the gloating type but Ami's smugness was bothering me




And I also enjoyed the flavor text

Oh, it's fine

Though I do want to ask Nanjo why he didn't say anything by the end of the game. I was operating under the assumption that the esper roles were me/Cold/jumpfight so I have no clue what he gained from following along with the "kill Pierre and Slezak" plan when he knew I was wrong

You hardly solved the game at all...ultimately you lost the game. I don't think you can really quote Ami as gloating over her. If you truly believed in the "No Zero" theory from back then, you wouldn't have co-operated in a plan to blow everyone up to stop Zero escaping.

---

No, I solved it at the beginning. But when nobody understood me/chose not to trust me, I chose that to believe I was wrong

I mean, I sent this to Franzise the day the game started:


So...yeah

Ami kind of ruined a lot of the game. Being inactive for that long was kind of stupid and we did need nine players...

And Jesus DID solve the game. It was everybody else who didn't solve it that caused the loss. I mean, we were VERY clear in the qts and thread. Worst of all, when we did EXPLICITLY say each other’s roles, people accused us of lying because we couldn’t reveal each other’s roles. It felt like nobody else was getting it so our conclusion that nobody else was getting it because they COULDN’T understand (they didn’t have the role). We solved the game but everybody else just came to weird conclusions instead. Can't really blame him for not trusting you guys when you “understood” days later :p

When's the next game? I'm ready whenever. Am I getting ahead of myself?

The solution to the game is based upon co-operation, and the solution is "No one is Zero"

You and JM's last actions were done on the basis that "There is a Zero, we cannot let him escape"

You solved this by no means. Thinking up a theory is good but if you don't follow through on it then it doesn't count as a solution.

---

We thought up the theory. When we told you, you began to trust me less and said me and Cold were in cahoots :/

We changed our theory because nobody else was realizing the truth which we thought must've meant they didn't have the role

If you wanna get technical, then I'll say this: "Jumpfight, Cold, and I realized the solution to the game on the very first phase. However, other players not realizing the solution caused us to pursue a different avenue. We feel we are not to blame here because pursuing the original avenue would be going against what the entire thread was telling us and therefore would not be a practical option. Had the other players listened, the game would've ended in three ally rounds very quickly."

That's long, though. I'd rather just say that we solved the game