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Re: [UPDATE] Ace Attorney 6 - TGS TrailerTopic%20Title
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Zekrom025 wrote:
Honestly at this point I don't know what to think. The direction Yamazaki wants the series to take is abundantly clear now, from the trailer as well as the comments on the video. People want Phoenix, Maya, Edgeworth, sprites; basically a reboot of the original trilogy, and Capcom knows it. Having Phoenix be the main character, setting the game in "Kurain", all the allusions to Maya; it's almost pandering at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Gumshoe and Iris came back too. I hope that eventually people realize that in the end seeing these characters on screen written by entirely different people is no substitute for the original series.
As many people have pointed out, the plot seems very contrived at first glance (I still can't get over the fact that there's an empty bench in the courtroom that has literally no purpose whatsoever other than to have Phoenix conveniently rush in and take the spot). As far as music goes, this is probably the worst objection theme in the series, assuming this is the main objection theme. I wasn't fond of the DD rendition and this is even worse.
I'll admit, the water mirror looks promising, and is probably the only thing I'm looking forward to (though wouldn't it be more convenient to outright channel the victim? I think that would be a lot more interesting personally...)
I'll sum up by saying that I'm somewhere between negative and skeptical (obligatory: "but I'll wait until the game comes out before I judge")

That's honesty I can get behind.

It's surprising people are saying they didn't like Dual Destinies' Objection theme, though. All those orchestra instruments sounded bland to you?
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Last edited by Gyakuten$aiban on Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nurio wrote:
True enough. I personally would've liked to see Apollo in the spotlight rather than Phoenix, though I really wouldn't call Phoenix dead weight. Would it have been a good decision to have Phoenix's story end with the trilogy? Yes. Is it necessarily a bad decision to keep Phoenix going after the trilogy? No.
I think it's still possible to do interesting things with Phoenix. And in fact, I think he was interesting in AA4 (even if he pulled the plot to himself at times). AA5? Less so. But I don't think he was a bad character to just simply act as an avatar for the player.

As for Athena. Well, I am biased. But I would be happy if her story is done and over with at this point. She had her build-up in DD, definitely, but she also had all her resolutions too, so having her be less plot-centric wouldn't actually leave things unresolved. Apollo, on the other hand...


My thoughts exactly. I'd love to have Phoenix go back to the way he was in AA4, as it was an interesting turn for his character. Apollo definitely deserved the spotlight in DD, and deserves at the very least a major role in this one. Let's not forget the popularity poll where he was voted #1, so Capcom should know that we want him back.

Gyakuten$aiban wrote:
It's surprising people are saying they didn't like Dual Destinies' Objection theme, though. All those orchestra instruments sounded bland to you?


It seemed strange to me that they picked his T&T theme to be his "main theme" considering the first objection theme felt more fitting (plus, I always considered it to be Mia's theme despite playing throughout the entirety of T&T). It's a nice song, but I honestly prefer the midi instrumentation over the orchestrated version, it's just personal preference.
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Zekrom025 wrote:
It seemed strange to me that they picked his T&T theme to be his "main theme" considering the first objection theme felt more fitting

Considering that Noriyuki Iwadare was the composer for AA3, but also for AA5, I can imagine there was some bias to choose the AA3 Objection theme as Phoenix's Objection theme in this game as well...
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Rather than say Phoenix's character was good in Ace Attorney 4, I'd say it's better as he was in Ace Attorney 5. His past demons put to rest, he's got his passion back and his desire to do right in the world renewed.

So Ace Attorney 5 establishes him as a leading figure who has confidence and determination that gets passed down to the next generation. However, now that we have that, it's time to let that next generation take charge and let Phoenix lead from behind, only occasionally stepping out to do the legwork.

I was hoping we were going in that direction but it seems that's not the case here.

I find it disappointing that the answer to "we ran out of new challenges for Phoenix" was "we'll send him to another country with a different court system" rather than just hand off things to the less seasoned characters. It sounds like they had the perfect opportunity to focus on the new generation here and are just sidestepping it.

If you put the development team under scrutiny I bet they'd admit they probably had another direction they wanted to go in but Capcom wants to continue using Phoenix as the lead character.

EDIT: Also, yes, I was bothered by how the defense bench in the Kurain courtroom is just there even though it's established that the nation doesn't subscribe to the notion of defense counsel for the accused.

"We just have this table here because it makes the room look symmetrical, no one ever uses it. But feel free to!" @_@
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Last edited by Gyakuten$aiban on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Was I only the only one by the way that immediately though "Maya and Franziska's love child" when she said foolish attorney?

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Please tell me I wasn't the only one!
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Gyakuten$aiban wrote:
Rather than say Phoenix's character was good in Ace Attorney 4, I'd say it's better as he was in Ace Attorney 5. His past demons put to rest, he's got his passion back and his desire to do right in the world renewed.

So Ace Attorney 5 establishes him as a leading figure who has confidence and determination that gets passed down to the next generation. However, now that we have that, it's time to let that next generation take charge and let Phoenix lead from behind, only occasionally stepping out to do the legwork.

I was hoping we were going in that direction but it seems that's not the case here.


Of course. Now that DD Phoenix has been established there's no going back, what I meant was that I much preferred AA4 Phoenix's character to DD's. I think with some proper development he could've retained the "Hobo-Nick" persona while at the same time being the leader and mentor figure he was in DD, without torpedoing his character and bringing him back to lawyerhood again. Basically make him Apollo's "Mia".

Man, with all this talk about Phoenix's character it feels like it's 2013 again.
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Gyakuten$aiban wrote:
Rather than say Phoenix's character was good in Ace Attorney 4, I'd say it's better as he was in Ace Attorney 5. His past demons put to rest, he's got his passion back and his desire to do right in the world renewed.

If that was in reply to me, I didn't say Phoenix's character in AA4 was good. But rather, I said it was interesting. There's a subtle difference.
And yeah, you hit the nail right on the head with "putting the demons to rest", honestly. A lot of people called it a character regression, but I thought it was only a natural development. (Going back to a previous state can still be a positive development in its own right.)

Gyakuten$aiban wrote:
I find it disappointing that the answer to "we ran out of new challenges for Phoenix" was "we'll send him to another country with a different court system" rather than just hand off things to the less seasoned characters. It sounds like they had the perfect opportunity to focus on the new generation here and are just sidestepping it.

If you put the development team under scrutiny I bet they'd admit they probably had another direction they wanted to go in but Capcom wants to continue using Phoenix as the lead character.

Yes, I think that's about what happened here. There is obviously no proof, but it makes sense. It brings me back to a certain issue in a certain different fandom where I had similar feelings.
In any case, I would've loved to see Apollo take the spotlight and grow more as a character. I don't feel bad about Phoenix taking the wheel, though. I just think I shouldn't expect too much character development this time around and simply see Phoenix more as an avatar than a character who has a lot of new things to say to surprise us with.

Gyakuten$aiban wrote:
EDIT: Also, yes, I was bothered by how the defense bench in the Kurain courtroom is just there even though it's established that the nation doesn't subscribe to the notion of defense counsel for the accused.

"We just have this table here because it makes the room look symmetrical, no one ever uses it. But feel free to!" @_@

Hold on. Who ever said that nobody has ever used to desk? It may not be used now, but it might actually have been used in the past, which is why the bench exists in the first place. I pointed out something similar in a previous post of mine
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Re: [UPDATE] Ace Attorney 6 - TGS TrailerTopic%20Title
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While I still feel like Dual Destinies didn't do what it was supposed to as a follow-up to Apollo Justice, let's just say for argument's sake that they're doing what they did with DD when it was first shown to the world (that is the real first case of the game is entirely different from what's being shown right now with a different plot than what was originally seen).

At least that gives me some optimism for things.
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Calios wrote:
Was I only the only one by the way that immediately though "Maya and Franziska's love child" when she said foolish attorney?

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Please tell me I wasn't the only one!


Well now that you've said it I'm thinking that too. Now I want fanfic on how exactly that happened.

That does bring up a good question: How old is Leifa? She seems to be the ruler of the country (at least until further notice), so she could be Nick's age and just look really young. That's nothing new for this series.

On the other hand, another tradition is to have super young people in improbable positions, so for all we know, Princess Kurain could be twenty and have been ruling since she was fifteen or something.

Of course, all of this is based on an assumption, so I could be totally wrong..
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Very small translation mistake: Layfa is not talking about "we mediums", わらわ (妾) is an archaic personal pronoun (sg, 1). It's "My medium powers are the one and only method of deciding the verdict."

Hmm, two things I really liked about the PV: the Kamen Rider Decade reference and the idea of the water mirror. Should result in some great mystery stories. Not sure if I wanted to see that as a main gimmick for a main series game. Would've been more fun/made more impact as a one time thing in the final chapter, perhaps...

Edit: (I'm also more a fan of Cease than Enough, being both an imperative and closer to tone)
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You know, for a website that's dedicated to ace attorney and thus logically filled with fans, this place seems to be the least interested in AA6. Even neogaf seems to be more excited than you guys.

I think what I'm noticing is that not a lot of you seem to be interested in alternative direction. You came up with ideas, writers ended up doing something quite frankly unpredicted (in a world where everyone complains about "playing it safe", I would hardly expect complaints about the opposite), and now you're very quick to reject the minimum amount of information provided. We know a basic setting and it's apparently enough for people to predict everything is bad.

I mean, that's what it seems. I'm not seeing much intrigue, just resentment over little information and differing perspective and ideas. Nobody seems to want to discuss what's at hand, just complain that it's not the alleged plot they wanted. That just seems silly.

Perhaps I'm just not seeing the same issues you are. But than I've played all played all the same stuff, and all of it. I just don't see the point in complaining about people writing things I myself didn't come up with. But then that's sort of the reason one reads other people's books, is it not?
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whoknowscran wrote:
You know, for a website that's dedicated to ace attorney and thus logically filled with fans, this place seems to be the least interested in AA6. Even neogaf seems to be more excited than you guys.

I think what I'm noticing is that not a lot of you seem to be interested in alternative direction. You came up with ideas, writers ended up doing something quite frankly unpredicted (in a world where everyone complains about "playing it safe", I would hardly expect complaints about the opposite), and now you're very quick to reject the minimum amount of information provided. We know a basic setting and it's apparently enough for people to predict everything is bad.

I mean, that's what it seems. I'm not seeing much intrigue, just resentment over little information and differing perspective and ideas. Nobody seems to want to discuss what's at hand, just complain that it's not the alleged plot they wanted. That just seems silly.

Perhaps I'm just not seeing the same issues you are. But than I've played all played all the same stuff, and all of it. I just don't see the point in complaining about people writing things I myself didn't come up with. But then that's sort of the reason one reads other people's books, is it not?

LOL We're fans, it's what we do with series we love, we want it to be amazing, and live up to the standard that preceeds itself. My hype burned out when we got all this info in Famitsu 2 weeks ago. I was going crazy with joy! Most of us were expecting more from TGS, but TGS's trailer didn't give much new things. (As most of it was in famitsu and fans here had already digested it).

The issue I see is that this trailer had MUCH less than DD's. It lacked the sidekick, it lacked seeing more than 1 witness (We had Junie and Tonate in the first trailer, along with Athena, and the intro to the Mood Matrix). This one just had Bokuto, we got Leifa's name, and we got a glimpse at the new system. No new music, no iconic teasing of the new prosecutor, not even VA names were mentioned. (Apparently they're a 'secret') Even watching the livestream of some footage (when I wasn't being booted out by premium members) had no BGM, just some ambience for the water mirror segment. I cried inside I couldn't hear any of Iwadare's amazing new music...

Mind you, even with DD most people complained when the didn't see any Apollo in the first trailer, but low and behold he returned. If you're hyped that's awesome, don't lose it :basil: But if others aren't, that's just them, leave them be :butzthumbs:
Re: [UPDATE] Ace Attorney 6 - TGS TrailerTopic%20Title
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whoknowscran wrote:
You know, for a website that's dedicated to ace attorney and thus logically filled with fans, this place seems to be the least interested in AA6. Even neogaf seems to be more excited than you guys.

I think what I'm noticing is that not a lot of you seem to be interested in alternative direction. You came up with ideas, writers ended up doing something quite frankly unpredicted (in a world where everyone complains about "playing it safe", I would hardly expect complaints about the opposite), and now you're very quick to reject the minimum amount of information provided. We know a basic setting and it's apparently enough for people to predict everything is bad.

I mean, that's what it seems. I'm not seeing much intrigue, just resentment over little information and differing perspective and ideas. Nobody seems to want to discuss what's at hand, just complain that it's not the alleged plot they wanted. That just seems silly.

Perhaps I'm just not seeing the same issues you are. But than I've played all played all the same stuff, and all of it. I just don't see the point in complaining about people writing things I myself didn't come up with. But then that's sort of the reason one reads other people's books, is it not?

I'm almost a bit offended here... Did you even read my posts? I've been pretty much nothing but positive about what we've been shown!
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If you want a disinterested Ace Attorney community, make an Ace Attorney thread on 4chan's /v/ board. They used to be tight-knit and intelligent but Dual Destinies basically sullied them and turned them jaded and annoying.

Now it's just nonstop bitching about how the current team is inept and how Athena is a black hole.
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The water mirror mechanic looks interesting. Lots of potential for misdirects and false visions to be scrutinized and turned around in ways not possible before. I also like how, despite being a new feature, it has ties to previous AA events; the DL-6 incident with Misty Fey sounds a lot like the way this works in court (as in a lying/misinformed victim "testifying"), though with a more physical medium rather than a person. Then again, Kurain is about as spiritual as you can get, so that was probably a given.


As for His Royal Highness Payne here;

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My runaway theory is that Gaspen got tired of having his lineage of lawyers being bested by Phoenix's family line (and Mia, and Apollo with help from Phoenix), so he decided to go to a country without defense attorneys, where his victories were all but guaranteed. Then Phoenix just so happens to show up one day...


whoknowscran wrote:
You know, for a website that's dedicated to ace attorney and thus logically filled with fans, this place seems to be the least interested in AA6. Even neogaf seems to be more excited than you guys.

I think what I'm noticing is that not a lot of you seem to be interested in alternative direction. You came up with ideas, writers ended up doing something quite frankly unpredicted (in a world where everyone complains about "playing it safe", I would hardly expect complaints about the opposite), and now you're very quick to reject the minimum amount of information provided. We know a basic setting and it's apparently enough for people to predict everything is bad.

I mean, that's what it seems. I'm not seeing much intrigue, just resentment over little information and differing perspective and ideas. Nobody seems to want to discuss what's at hand, just complain that it's not the alleged plot they wanted. That just seems silly.

Perhaps I'm just not seeing the same issues you are. But than I've played all played all the same stuff, and all of it. I just don't see the point in complaining about people writing things I myself didn't come up with. But then that's sort of the reason one reads other people's books, is it not?


Negativity always rings louder than positivity, especially through written words. That being said, while there are some jumping to conclusions without proper cause, there is plenty of positive posts about the trailer in between those bad connotations.
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Blademaster_Orca wrote:
My runaway theory is that Gaspen got tired of having his lineage of lawyers being bested by Phoenix's family line (and Mia, and Apollo with help from Phoenix), so he decided to go to a country without defense attorneys, where his victories were all but guaranteed. Then Phoenix just so happens to show up one day...


Wow, I love that theory. That fits the setting like a glove.
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linkenski wrote:
That's where even if it may be rushed, it just strikes me as completely lazy, how they took the DD theme, transposed it half a note, changed the instrumentation sound font and slapped an alternative coda in there.

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Herr Linkenski, I assume you meant to say "half a tone", as in a semitone, ja?
If that's the case, then you are wrong! By comparing the key of this new Objekshoon theme with its past versions, we can measure that it's in E minor, as opposed to the T&T and DD versions, which were both in D minor! Therefore, the difference in pitch is not one, but two semitones!!!
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Gyakuten$aiban wrote:
Rather than say Phoenix's character was good in Ace Attorney 4, I'd say it's better as he was in Ace Attorney 5. His past demons put to rest, he's got his passion back and his desire to do right in the world renewed.

So Ace Attorney 5 establishes him as a leading figure who has confidence and determination that gets passed down to the next generation. However, now that we have that, it's time to let that next generation take charge and let Phoenix lead from behind, only occasionally stepping out to do the legwork.

I was hoping we were going in that direction but it seems that's not the case here.

I find it disappointing that the answer to "we ran out of new challenges for Phoenix" was "we'll send him to another country with a different court system" rather than just hand off things to the less seasoned characters. It sounds like they had the perfect opportunity to focus on the new generation here and are just sidestepping it.

If you put the development team under scrutiny I bet they'd admit they probably had another direction they wanted to go in but Capcom wants to continue using Phoenix as the lead character.

EDIT: Also, yes, I was bothered by how the defense bench in the Kurain courtroom is just there even though it's established that the nation doesn't subscribe to the notion of defense counsel for the accused.

"We just have this table here because it makes the room look symmetrical, no one ever uses it. But feel free to!" @_@


I had that feeling in DD as well. They had the opportunity to give Phoenix a new challenge as the boss in DD, but he hardly got any attention since Athena (and to a lesser extent Apollo) got it all.

So I'm getting the impression that they're ditching that and putting Phoenix in a foreign nation with a different judicial system, even though that kind of thing sounds like something Edgeworth would do.

Personally I think the Athena/Apollo duo is the best out of the three lawyers at the Agency, and while they haven't announced that they won't be appearing, I get the feeling that this game is fuelled on nostalgia from the original trilogy.
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Is Shu Takumi writing this? I don't want DD to happen all over again. I just don't want to expect too much y'know? Like when I bought PL vs AA. Total disappointment.

On another note, bless people who fansubs/fantranslate. I still can't get over how great AAI 2 was. Here's hoping DGS got translated as well.
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No, this is a Yamazaki/Eshiro project (so the Investigations series and Dual Destinies).

Takumi appears to be the lead man for all Dai Gyakuten Saiban matters going forward.
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Ash wrote:
Very small translation mistake: Layfa is not talking about "we mediums", わらわ (妾) is an archaic personal pronoun (sg, 1).

she was saying わらわ and not われは? ughhhhhh

whoknowscran wrote:
You know, for a website that's dedicated to ace attorney and thus logically filled with fans, this place seems to be the least interested in AA6. Even neogaf seems to be more excited than you guys.

Oh, I'm going to buy it day 1 regardless of the promo material. But DD was extremely disappointing, and this is made by the same team, and the premise seems really contrived and half-baked based on the info we've gotten so far. I definitely want the game to be fantastic, but based on the promo material it seems like there's going to be at least a couple of major problems.

I just can't bring myself to ignore all the issues that I'm seeing, get super-hyped about the game, and then get disappointed again because it's DD2.
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Yamazaki gets a bad rap for DD but GK2 was amazing.
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At least this time they explicitly said they want to produce something that will impress.
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Bad Player wrote:
Ash wrote:
Very small translation mistake: Layfa is not talking about "we mediums", わらわ (妾) is an archaic personal pronoun (sg, 1).

she was saying わらわ and not われは? ughhhhhh

「わらわ」 is not that common a word, so I understand why people not used to the word might hear 「われは」, but it obviously can't be 「われは」, because 「われはの霊媒の力が」 doesn't make sense grammatically (はの).
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Somrthing i noticed in DD was that some characters seemed to mimic animations or gestures of older characters, sometimes intentionally as a nod (Apollo being a bit like Kristoph, for instance) and I can't pinpoint where I've seen it, but that animation when Evil Maya bends her head and smirks... I know I've seen that somewhere before.

Also, thanks for the musical corrections. My terminology was a bit off, yes, and my ears mistook it :P

To be honest, I was never that talented despite of being a music student. I have a more romantic used approach to it which can be positive and negative.
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You might be thinking of Alita Tiala, although very loosely. Or Dahlia when she tilts her head.
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MBr wrote:
Yamazaki gets a bad rap for DD but GK2 was amazing.

True, but my expectations are based on the last thing he did. I'd love to get another GK2, but I need a reason to believe it won't turn out like DD...

Ash wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Ash wrote:
Very small translation mistake: Layfa is not talking about "we mediums", わらわ (妾) is an archaic personal pronoun (sg, 1).

she was saying わらわ and not われは? ughhhhhh

「わらわ」 is not that common a word, so I understand why people not used to the word might hear 「われは」, but it obviously can't be 「われは」, because 「われはの霊媒の力が」 doesn't make sense grammatically (はの).

Yeah, but it was also possible that she used われわれ and I just missed the second れ xP
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Broocevelt wrote:
You might be thinking of Alita Tiala, although very loosely. Or Dahlia when she tilts her head.


Yeah, I think it's one of those. Also, at Neogaf someone pointed out how Nick having the T&T theme again might hint that he's not the only playable attorney, which I hope is right because I'm not feeling the theme, and I also think it's a pretty lazy remix, that doesn't really fit nick even.

I mean, I get we're in asia, but aren't character themes mostly supposed to show what the character is like? I find it slightly off that Nick's theme is Asian in instrumentation, when he's still just his usual flashy self (with a weight-loss, and very jerky animations now) :yogi:
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Re: [UPDATE] Ace Attorney 6 - TGS TrailerTopic%20Title
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The miracle finally happen...

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So someone translated the livestream Q&A of AA6 revealing a few more details:

- Medium vision allows a medium to see the last moments of victims, including sights, sounds, smells, feelings and more
- Prosecutor in the demonstration was Winston Payne.
- Mode demonstrated in gameplay shown by Lefia Padama Kurain, princess of the kingdom of Kurain, who channels the memories and senses of the victim
- Look at the water mirror in order to find contradictions in the victim's memories
- Goal is to keep looking for more contradictions in order to progress the trial
- During Q&A, the developers wouldn't say if Kingdom of Kurain was linked to Kurain Village, or if Maya Fey would be in the game

Source


Edit: Disregard all.

Last edited by Zekrom025 on Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: [UPDATE] Ace Attorney 6 - TGS TrailerTopic%20Title
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Zekrom025 wrote:
- Prosecutor in the demonstration was Winston Payne.


What, really?
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Re: [UPDATE] Ace Attorney 6 - TGS TrailerTopic%20Title
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Zekrom025 wrote:
- Goal is to keep looking for more contradictions in order to progress the trial

Gee willikers, what a new and exciting gameplay premise!
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Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: [UPDATE] Ace Attorney 6 - TGS TrailerTopic%20Title
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Just a cute lil' bun-bun

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Zekrom025 wrote:
- Goal is to keep looking for more contradictions in order to progress the trial:

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I know right? Mind blown
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That seems erroneous. The sunglasses are definitely indicative of Gaspen Payne.
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Gyakuten$aiban wrote:
Zekrom025 wrote:
- Prosecutor in the demonstration was Winston Payne.

What, really?

Yeah, I wonder if they literally said Winston Payne or if they more meant "Winston-Payne-like" (thus, a relative or such).
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Apologies if this is off, but I saw it sourced by a few reputable Nintendo news sites so I thought it might be true. Regardless, if it is erroneous I will go ahead and delete it.

Edit: Although, the source itself quotes this website to be the source, and I haven't seen this information anywhere here. So... yeah, sorry about that :sadshoe:

Last edited by Zekrom025 on Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gyakuten$aiban wrote:
That seems erroneous. The sunglasses are definitely indicative of Gaspen Payne.

...Did no one else notice the crown? Also, I thought at first it was a bunch of bananas on his head
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@Summary:
1) Sounds like Water mirror is simply an advanced Mood Matrix....
wait a minute sights? Yeah...it sounds like what Perceive do too..don't tell me Phoenix gonna yell "GOTCHA!" now..uughh...this is becoming more likely that those 2 won't appearing. :(
2) Goal is to cpntinue the trial by finding more contradiction? Oh heaven's God!! I never realize that!
Re: [UPDATE] Ace Attorney 6 - TGS TrailerTopic%20Title
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DGS fucking when..

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Nurio wrote:
Yeah, I wonder if they literally said Winston Payne or if they more meant "Winston-Payne-like" (thus, a relative or such).

Can't be Winston. He lost his hair from battle with Mia remember? Unless he got a wig, or hair extension.

Spoiler: notice young Payne
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D_Albertz wrote:
2) Goal is to cpntinue the trial by finding more contradiction? Oh heaven's God!! I never realize that!

has this ever happened in an Ace Attorney game yet? :meekins:
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