Re: The pairing debate thread!
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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Honestly, just sort of thinking about it creeps me out a little bit. >_>
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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X 
Intellectually attracted, my foot. That's a "I'll tell you when you're older" story right there.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
俺の黄金の魔女
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Zetto San wrote:
:youngmia: X
Intellectually attracted, my foot. That's a "I'll tell you when you're older" story right there.
Intellectually attracted, my foot. That's a "I'll tell you when you're older" story right there.
Did you...want to debate this? I mean, I'm willing. (I can see Mia as bi, but I tend to see Lana as straight)
Re: The pairing debate thread!
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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THINGS HAPPEN.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Last edited by musouka on Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
...and that wouldn't have worked at all.
Honestly, just sort of thinking about it creeps me out a little bit. >_>
Honestly, just sort of thinking about it creeps me out a little bit. >_>
I know, it wouldnt work at all! Too blatant.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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My main point comes from when you finally get information on Lana.
That... was probably why she was attracted to me.
WHA?
Intellectually attracted!
Oh, to be bright eyed and naive.
The set up is simple. College life. Mia mets her roommate and classmate. They're not to interested in much else beyond working. Then HORMONES! Mia has thoughts. Lana has thoughts. They've been friends for awhile. The males around them aren't terribly interesting. It's late. Eventually...
Things happen.
They're thinking is different. Sex between friends screws EVERYTHING up. Unfortunately, they part ways. They never speak with each other and keep that fleeting moment of bliss under wraps.
Mia bites the dust. Lana learns about it in the newspaper. Shock, anguish, shame, whatnot wash over. Ema asks,
Did you know her?
Lana thinks, she's still young. She'd never understand. She'd never comprehend how a woman can love another woman. Ema is smart, but still naive. Lana lies a bit.
Yes. We were friends.
Were you close?
You could say... she was attracted to me.
???
Intellectually. She liked me because I was smart.
Oh, I get it!
*tee hee*
Such is the naive. Ema is a smart cookie, but she still has a lot to learn.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
俺の黄金の魔女
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EDIT: Okay, that was rather flip of me. Let me put it this way. We don't know that they were roommates or anything of the sort. And if Lana was really that anguished and upset about her secret one time love affair with Mia, I can't see her mentioning it at all to Ema, regardless of explaining it away as "intellectual attraction". Lana is a pretty intensively private person, I think any romance (or hawt sex) between her and Mia would have been the same way: private.
That line is damn hilarious, though, and I don't blame people for ficcing the two.
Last edited by musouka on Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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musouka wrote:
I...can't debate fanfiction. Sorry.
Well, these are FAN pairings we're talking about here. I was just thinking of the most practical scenario.
And it happens to also be my next big fanfiction idea. >.>
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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musouka wrote:
We're talking about fan pairings, and debating them based on canon. Notice I don't use Edgeworth and Phoenix's mad makeout sessions in the broom closet on the seventh floor as evidence, or talk about that time they shared a hotel room after Edgeworth got drunk.
True, but I'm basing my assertion on an actual part of the script. That "..." by Lana is also very telling. Why would she take a second to pause and think when it came to Mia, of all people. If what Lana said wasn't a cover up, then she would have said right out, "We were friends because she thought I was smart." or something along those lines. But to use the word "attracted" is one rarely used for a simple intellectual relationship. I'd be willing to be there was a sexual history between the two that ended pretty badly.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
俺の黄金の魔女
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It's telling us that she's very driven--she did "anything" to become a prosecutor and protect her younger sister. The pause is her not wanting to give more away about herself than she has to. Again, if it was about hiding something about Mia, then she would have chosen a carefully neutral phrase about their relationship, not something innuendo-laden.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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musouka wrote:
If she paused because she was hesitant to share the nature of her relationship with Mia, then why use a loaded word like "attraction" when she finally answers? If you actually look at the context of that line, you see that Lana refers to Mia as someone that will "do anything" to become an attorney. She then compares her drive to Mia's. That line, aside from being an innuendo, is about how their mutual similarity in that regard drew them to one another.
It's telling us that she's very driven--she did "anything" to become a prosecutor and protect her younger sister. The pause is her not wanting to give more away about herself than she has to. Again, if it was about hiding something about Mia, then she would have chosen a carefully neutral phrase about their relationship, not something innuendo-laden.
It's telling us that she's very driven--she did "anything" to become a prosecutor and protect her younger sister. The pause is her not wanting to give more away about herself than she has to. Again, if it was about hiding something about Mia, then she would have chosen a carefully neutral phrase about their relationship, not something innuendo-laden.
Not necessarily. After such a long time of never telling anyone anything openly, be it Gant's vice grip on her or her long lost fling, she might have experienced a Freudian slip. Lana is a very strong willed person, but in that moment, where her situation was getting worse by the second, the mental pressure might have forced herself unknowingly to relive the pressure by leading Phoenix on a bit into her past. But, Lana got extremely lucky by her sister being there, for it was on the few things Ema could cover up for her unknowingly.
Also, the collective drive to be lawyers could also works into that their relationship may have just started as study partners. Lana would keep it at that, but again, there's a little more pressure added to keep everything bottled up, thus leading to the probable Freudian slip.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Zetto San wrote:
Not necessarily. After such a long time of never telling anyone anything openly, be it Gant's vice grip on her or her long lost fling, she might have experienced a Freudian slip. Lana is a very strong willed person, but in that moment, where her situation was getting worse by the second, the mental pressure might have forced herself unknowingly to relive the pressure by leading Phoenix on a bit into her past. But, Lana got extremely lucky by her sister being there, for it was on the few things Ema could cover up for her unknowingly.
There's absolutely no indication of this in her demeanor, though. Afterwards she moves on easily, telling Phoenix she was the best there was in the class. Also, a Freudian Slip usually occurs when you're not thinking, not when you've paused to think how you're going to phrase something.
If anything, the "attracted/intellectually attracted" innuendo seems like a way to steer the conversation into a joke about Ema, not so much that Lana's inner turmoil about her college fling might come to light. I think more likely, at this point, she's not really focused on her relationship with Mia. She doesn't really mention it later as far as I can remember, even when she could have said something to Phoenix about Mia in the end, she's too busy talking about how important his teamwork with Edgeworth was.
The single line you mentioned is really the only indication of anything between her and Mia. And while fanfiction has been spun off far less, it's difficult to debate "could have" or "maybes". Yes, it "could have" been a Freudian Slip due to the pressure of keeping her love locked away for so long without an outlet to properly express how emotionally dear Mia was to her, but I'm not sure that's supported by anything else we were shown in the game.
There's a similarly hilarious line about Kaminogi and Grossberg (which is where all that amusing fanart comes from), but I'm not sure anyone is going to be writing a lot of fics about those two and the gravity of their forbidden love.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Is that agreeable?
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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--but as far as actual canon support, I'm just not sure there's a lot of it outside that line.But I wish you luck on your fic, I'll look for it.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
raging klavier crush
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grim_tales wrote:
Interesting also if the "person closest to me" line had been replaced with "the woman I love", that would have been too OTT, IMO. "The person closest to me" is more subtle.
Suppose it *had* been like that? Maybe something like this...?
Phoenix: And I can't even save the woman I love...
Huh?... the woman I lo.. what did I just say?!
Suppose it *had* been like that? Maybe something like this...?
Phoenix: And I can't even save the woman I love...
Huh?... the woman I lo.. what did I just say?!
It's not just "more subtle". Also taking into account how he says it, it's also saying something completely different. I've mentioned it before, but "person closest to me" comes completely naturally to Phoenix. He doesn't even have to think about it. For an easy contrast, think about the scene where Phoenix realizes he trusts Edgeworth--that hits him as a revelation. That's Phoenix uncovering feelings he didn't know existed, that catch him off guard--implying unspoken depths. Nothing like that ever happens when he talks about or considers Maya.
Basically, "I can't even save the woman I lo... huh?" is exactly what didn't happen, and I really do think that this choice on the part of the writers reflects a lot about the way Phoenix feels about Maya.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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If Maya being put in deadly situations (twice, no less) doesn't change Phoenix's feelings toward her at ALL... well, I don't think anything will.
Maya loves Phoenix dearly, and he loves her. They are probably the most important person in each others' lives... but I can't see it as anything BUT platonic, and I really feel that in GS3 they sort of go out of their way to affirm that.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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I haven't played GS3 yet so can't argue the toss on that one.
Yep, you can love someone and care for them, but not sexually. That's what platonic feelings are. That's nice too.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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/ 
ALL THE WAY!!! I just think that their relationship is adorable and could go further. Of course this isn't definite, but its still a possibility.
*Please insert corny phrase here*
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Yin_Yang wrote:
:phoenix: / ALL THE WAY!!!
I just think that their relationship is adorable and could go further. Of course this isn't definite, but its still a possibility.
ALL THE WAY!!! I just think that their relationship is adorable and could go further. Of course this isn't definite, but its still a possibility.
Did you want to debate P/M? Keep in mind that this is the debate thread and not the favorite couples thread, so it should be assumed that you're here to argue for your pairing. I'm up for it if you are, though it's probably sort of beating a dead horse at this point as far as my tired old arguments are concerned.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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But Phoenix has not, so far, displayed any actual romantic feelings for Maya (in the game), and I'm not sure she has either, they do care for each other very much, a sort of "best friend" relationship or brother/sister. They love each other dearly, but not like *that*.
Maybe its different in a manga?
Sorry for covering old ground again.. ;)
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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And as we've already said, they do have a very sweet, platonic relationship, but there's nothing to suggest that it 1. Is romantic, 2. Could become romantic, or 3. NEEDS to become romantic.
And no prob about the covering old ground issue, but as we're pretty much just repeating ourselves here we should probably move on to a different pairing ^.^
Re: The pairing debate thread!
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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Karma/Miles. I just don't see it!
I can see the appeal of Karma/Greg as the rivals/lovers, and sometimes that can be pretty hot. I prefer not to think of Greg that way, but I don't mind it at all. Catharsis has some great art of it.
But Karma/Miles, even if there's not even a hint of it until Miles is completely legal, does not appeal to me at all. I love playing with power dynamics in relationships. But in this case, Miles simply doesn't have *any* power in the relationship, and quite frankly I just can't see Karma getting any pleasure from taking advantage of him in such an obvious way.
There are some villains I can see as abusive. But for some reason I can't see it in Karma. He spent 15 years building up Miles as a perfect prosecutor just so that he could ruin him. It was intricate and intellectual. If that was his idea of "perfect revenge" I just don't see how sleeping with Miles fits into it. It's so...messy, and uncreative. And unpredictable. And those just aren't things I associate with Karma.
(Of course, no offense to 46 and counting people who have voted for them in the pairing poll :D)
Re: The pairing debate thread!
I seized fate by the neck alright...
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But if we wanted to debate the aesthetics...ugh. I can't come up with a good debate for either side there. I guess my little..."debate" ends here...for now.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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In Japan, the age of consent is 13 (?).
Something could have been put in to the first 2 games (don't know about 3) if the writers wanted, but it wasn't. Imagine some fics and those sort of scenes - 1) Maya actually dressed like a teenager in different clothes 2) Phoenix wrestling with his conscience ("No, this is Maya - stop!"). It can't be there if it wasn't put in.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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As for Karma/Miles, I agree with you Croik although you pretty much said it all and I don't have much to add.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Or it could just be a typical teen thing, acting younger than you actually are.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
I like a man with a big ... vocabulary.
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SilverZephyr wrote:
Well, obviously it isn't ACTUAL pedophilia. Maya is not a child. But she looks and often acts like one, and there is a rather large age gap, so it FEELS like pedophilia.
Well gosh not really, if she's meant to be 18 and he's 24.
Is this an inapproriate place to note that my OH (other half) is a few years younger than me?
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
I like a man with a big ... vocabulary.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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That shows she was thinkingly about Phoenix and she's fond of him, if nothing else.
Maya is 17 when they meet. I'm sure that's legal ;)
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
raging klavier crush
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grim_tales wrote:
The age difference isn't that bad. Couldn't it be interpretated as a crush on Maya's part (more of?) What about the card scene?
That shows she was thinkingly about Phoenix and she's fond of him, if nothing else.
That shows she was thinkingly about Phoenix and she's fond of him, if nothing else.
Maya loves Phoenix. That's obvious. But given how casually she was ready to show the card off to Phoenix and Pearl, I don't think it's indicative of romantic interest.
In addition, I think GS3 pretty much completely kills the idea of Maya harboring a secret crush on Phoenix.
Spoiler: minor GS3
Re: The pairing debate thread!
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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It's just not romantic at all.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Spoiler: TnT ending spoilers
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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She's younger than him!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
OBJECTION!
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Spoiler:
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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KingMobUK wrote:
SilverZephyr wrote:
Well, obviously it isn't ACTUAL pedophilia. Maya is not a child. But she looks and often acts like one, and there is a rather large age gap, so it FEELS like pedophilia.
Well gosh not really, if she's meant to be 18 and he's 24.
Is this an inapproriate place to note that my OH (other half) is a few years younger than me?
(When she's 18 he's 25, but that's neither here nor there).
7 years isn't awful. It's just that when you're 18, 7 is a sizable chunk of your life, so it makes more of a difference than.
I didn't mean to say that that's what it would feel like TO THEM. I was talking about my, and others, opinion as a fan. It really depends more on how you see Maya--as I said, it's not ACTUAL pedophilia, but Maya is about 14 in my mind half the time so it's squicky.
But as 1. I'm repeating myself and 2. This is more about just the way I see it than any canon argument, I'll stop this conversation now.
(BTW, I wasn't talking about MORALITY so much as I was talking about squickiness from a fan's POV).
@Grim_tales: I believe that was Musouka that said that, and I think she meant more along the lines that there's a lot of interaction between all characters and a lot of ships have moments than can be interpreted in a positive way for the ship by the FANS of the ship--not necessarily that there was a lot of canon evidence on the whole for all of the ships, just that the writers were generous with the hints.
But I haven't played GS3 so I may be wrong about that.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
俺の黄金の魔女
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SilverZephyr wrote:
@Grim_tales: I believe that was Musouka that said that, and I think she meant more along the lines that there's a lot of interaction between all characters and a lot of ships have moments than can be interpreted in a positive way for the ship by the FANS of the ship--not necessarily that there was a lot of canon evidence on the whole for all of the ships, just that the writers were generous with the hints.
But I haven't played GS3 so I may be wrong about that.
But I haven't played GS3 so I may be wrong about that.
Yes, pretty much. I do think at least every (again, major) ship gets at least one line that will make shippers happy, some more than one, but the game itself doesn't go into "shipping free for all" or even nail down ANY canon pairings except Gumshoe/Maggey and Diego/Mia. Well, from my perspective at least.
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