Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
Witty filler.
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1) Shelly de Killer was the one who shot Franziska. Shelly de Killer has practically no links to Edgeworth, unless you're suggesting that Edgeworth hired him, which is also silly. Why? It's not like Edgeworth had some special reason to want to prosecute.
2) It could be what we call "narrative coincidence" or "deus ex machina." They wanted to explain what happened to Edgeworth, explore his mentality, and explain the theme of the game (Justice for all). They had one case, so they brought Edgeworth back so most of the morality parts could take place in court. Also supports the whole friendship theme.
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
Friendly Neighborhood Naruhodou
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...
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
Ur-quan overlord
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Gumshoe was my favorite character in PW1, and I though that he was almost dull in the first three cases, which disappointed me very much.
But boy, he made up for it in this one. Great lines, great story role, and he looked funny at the end. 
And while some people hate Oldbag, I find her hilarious. I loved her diatribe to Phoenix about "Are you what you wanted to be when you were five? No? Then why should I be held accountable for my testimony changing?" (very, very rough paraphrase) I thought her new uniform was especially funny. 
"Hotti" made a funny return appearance too. 
The first three cases are also loaded with typos, which really annoyed me at times.
But this one has almost none. I guess the proofreader was awake for this one. And the general courtroom drama just is more exciting than the first three cases. This is partly due to better story and Edgeworth's return, but the writing in general seemed sharper and the back-and-forth between Phoenix, Udgey, and Edgeworth was more intense than the first three cases. And there were some funny lines in the courtroom. The judge was perhaps more lovably clueless than he has ever been 
, and I cracked up at Phoenix saying "Baseballs have stitches! Footballs are made of leather!" There were some great sprites, too - like de Killer's radio exploding and Adrian's glasses shattering.Anyway, the deeper parts of this case have been discussed a lot - defending a guilty client, the story was interesting, Adrian is one of the best-developed minor characters so far. But in addition to this, I also think it's probably the funniest case in Justice for All.
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
Friendly Neighborhood Naruhodou
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Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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I was under the slight impression he was being enlisted/volunteering in order to assist the capture of the assassin - otherwise there was no good reason for him to talk about having such ties to such a group in the first place.
that may not be his whole reason for being absent for a whole year, but it explains his connection to the case somewhat in that he was there FOR the purpose initially of tracking down De Killer with them.
...maybe we're past that in the conversation, but whatever!
~Beware of the Shark - He'll bite!~
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
the last hope of a doomed race
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The greatest romance of them all...
a world of hate, of war, of cannbalism, and of unsurmountable odds...
Coming soon to a theater near you...
the numbers are against us , my friends...
NUMBERS WAR parts 1-9( rated R)
a world of hate, of war, of cannbalism, and of unsurmountable odds...
Coming soon to a theater near you...
the numbers are against us , my friends...
NUMBERS WAR parts 1-9( rated R)
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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person132 wrote:
I think it was implied that Edgeworth had been watching Phoenix from afar, so to speak. When he found out about this case, I suppose he considered it the appropriate time to reveal himself to Phoenix.
I'm pretty sure that when they showed Edgeworth at the airport talking on the phone to Gumshoe, he was reading about Phoenix in that newspaper. Or at least, that's a common theory.
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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Phantom Phoenix wrote:
person132 wrote:
I think it was implied that Edgeworth had been watching Phoenix from afar, so to speak. When he found out about this case, I suppose he considered it the appropriate time to reveal himself to Phoenix.
I'm pretty sure that when they showed Edgeworth at the airport talking on the phone to Gumshoe, he was reading about Phoenix in that newspaper. Or at least, that's a common theory.
Now who has Franziska been hunting after in legal circles?
So, yes, Edgeworth was watching from afar the way I feel. Though I think he'd have taken any opportunity after the third case to have done it: the soonest case preferably.
Cripes, Edgeworth really felt like a guardian angel in that case, while still feeling like an outright obnoxious braggart in court. It's a shame how he overshadowed Franziska then, save in everyone's favourite Deus Ex moment of the case.
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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hires 
to kidnap 
seems surspicious from the beginingyea, i know shelly wants to 'protect his assassins honor' but still...
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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MatEngard wrote:
i don't play the game but... the fact that wavy gravy hires to kidnap seems surspicious from the begining
yea, i know shelly wants to 'protect his assassins honor' but still...
Not only would it not seem so drastically suspicious, it would also be nigh-on impossible to piece together at that time.
hires to kidnap seems surspicious from the beginingyea, i know shelly wants to 'protect his assassins honor' but still...
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
?!
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MatEngard wrote:
i don't play the game but... the fact that wavy gravy hires to kidnap seems surspicious from the begining
yea, i know shelly wants to 'protect his assassins honor' but still...
hires to kidnap seems surspicious from the beginingyea, i know shelly wants to 'protect his assassins honor' but still...
Matt never hired Shelly to kidnap Maya, Shelly did kidnapped Maya to force Phoenix into defending Matt in court.
Holy Hell wrote:
Raven Darkheart wrote:
it is when you look underneath the underneath
It's not a hole in the wall. It is a wall surrounding a hole.
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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khaaan! wrote:
MatEngard wrote:
i don't play the game but... the fact that wavy gravy hires to kidnap seems surspicious from the begining
yea, i know shelly wants to 'protect his assassins honor' but still...
hires to kidnap seems surspicious from the beginingyea, i know shelly wants to 'protect his assassins honor' but still...
Matt never hired Shelly to kidnap Maya, Shelly did kidnapped Maya to force Phoenix into defending Matt in court.
Yeah, he kidnapped Maya because Matt was being framed for the murder. And Shelly said he always makes sure that his clients are never accused of the crime, or something like that. Maya was the reason that Phoenix took the case.
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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...
Yeah. I'm a sucker for that kind of thing, I always get really emotionally attached to the storyline and the angstier it is, the more I love it.
You know what was interesting, though? My brother read a walkthrough and then attempted to spoil me several times. (I just went LALALALAALALALA on him). Naïve as I was, I really believed Matt was innocent. My brother told me about the two endings- how in one Matt was guilty and in the other Adrian was guilty, but that's all he said.
So I thought I had to get Matt convicted even though he was innocent o_O In my mind, De Killer was acting alone, hahaha. I'm so clueless. Well that did make me very distraught. I was actually very relieved when Matt revealed his true self, cuz then I could go GUILTY on him without feeling guilty myself XD
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
Friendly Neighborhood Naruhodou
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Only one part of the game is completely truthful; it sees through Matt's deception from the very beginning and tries to warn you that the case is not all it seems to be.
The music.
In the other two cases with investigation, the Detention Center always plays the "Jailor's Elegy", IIRC. In case 4, talking to Matt Enguarde uses "Search - In the Midst 2002", a track exclusive to Case 4 and played only when talking to Matt and when questioning Adrian on the first day of investigation, when she appears to be the murderer. Anyone who evokes that theme must be suspicious.
...
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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The end of the game was pretty sweet. What Maya drew really struck me and well I've read it's a nice foreshadowing of the third game or something. Looking forward to it!
What was the worst was when... Adrain cried helplessly. Even though this was obviously a game, I felt really bad for her. But I'm glad things turned out fine.
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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OBJECTION " i objection this is objectionable"
OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"
OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
OBJECTION!
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Spoiler:
To whoever mentioned the music, thats very good thinking. I didnt notice that!
The bad ending leaves a shadow of
(Or got me thinking).Spoilered to be safe.
Nick and Maya - Friends and Lovers....
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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OBJECTION " i objection this is objectionable"
OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"
OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
OBJECTION!
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Did you at first think Adrian was the murderer? At first I thought Adrian was the Dee Vasquez of this case, Adrian and Juan had maybe had a fight because Juan was angry at Adrian for controlling his friend/rival Matt (rival or not, they still could have respect for each other), and Juan was intending to kill Adrian, but Adrian killed in self defense.
Simple.
Nick and Maya - Friends and Lovers....
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
;_;
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When Phoenix visits Matt and takes him on as a client, he asks him point blank (as he usually does): did you kill him? And Matt says no. No Psyche-Lock or anything.
Maybe this is worded differently in the Japanese version, but I know that when you hire someone to kill someone else, legally, that makes you the killer. Therefore, even when he revealed himself to be the evil jerk he was, I still didn't think he did it. It was an impossibility to me.
That was the only thing that I was a little bothered by in the game. In the end I resolved it in my mind by saying that Matt basically told the truth, just not the whole truth. It still isn't quite right, though.
Franziska is actually one of my favourite characters so I welcomed an opportunity for her to develop.
FOOTBALLS ARE MADE OF LEATHER!
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
OBJECTION!
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As for Psyche Locks, they tell if a person is holding secrets AFAIK, not if theyre lying.
Nick and Maya - Friends and Lovers....
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
;_;
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I guess it doesn't really detect the lies as such, but that's certainly how Nick uses the device--he basically goes around asking questions and if someone goes "uh, I was asleep", and locks appear, then he knows something's up. And Matt was definitely hiding something! Of course, a later question would reveal that with the crazy amount of locks (quite a sight!).
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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It's an emotional roller-coaster. And, to put it rather bluntly, pandemonium ensues. It's also a rush to do what must be done. The stress Phoenix feels in trying to get Engarde an acquittal becomes your own stress, you feel with Phoenix to the point where you say what he says: You just don't know what to do. I can't speak for others, but when playing Case 4, I felt the absolute hopelessness get me. In this case, Phoenix pulled himself from the brink of death nearly 12 times. It just gave you an idea of how you were hanging on by a mere thread.
But, the emotional build-up began on the second day of investigation. Unlike even Turnabout Goodbyes last day of investigation, it had such emotional tension that you were unsure to even laugh at anything. Edgeworth even helped you, Gumshoe put his job and nearly life on the line for you, and yet, the situation still seemed worse than abysmal. Adrian is an emotional wreck and doesn't seem like she'll be able to help you. Other than little Pearl for the latter day, you are alone.
The emotion climaxes when Engarde reveals what could possibly be the biggest "WTF" moment in history. I mean it. He reveals that he's working with DeKiller, and you need to get him an acquittal or Maya gets killed. Engarde's menacing, hopeless, and dark music begins to play at the moment he reveals the "True" Matt Engarde (Search~Core 2002), adding to your feeling of misery, hopelessness, and betrayal. It seemed like nothing could be done. It felt as though a long string of investigations climaxed to Matt Engarde revealing himself to be the murderer, something that has never happened in the series before or since.
Unlike every other trial, no glimpse of hope appears. No saving evidence appears. You feel as though there's no damn way you could ever win. You knew there's no way everyone would return the same out of this. And you continue to fight Matt alone in the courtroom, with nobody, not Edgeworth, Dekiller, Matt, Maya, the Judge, or anybody on your side or fighting with you. You fight this grim, hopeless battle by yourself, all alone.
Until Franziska arrives, and hope with her. Franziska is pretty much personified as hope, as she brings the three final keys of evidence. Gumshoe nearly got himself killed to get them to you. Franziska Von Karma, the one woman with an almost inhuman hatred for you; your very name brought a bad taste to her mouth. Yet, only she stands with you to fight against Matt Engarde, and fight for truth and justice. However, after placing the evidence in your hand, she leaves the choice up to you.
Phoenix prevails. He shows the true meaning of justice. As Edgeworth, ironically, had taught Phoenix, Justice is not winning a trial, it's finding the guily, well, guilty.
And that, is the reason why Case 4 is one of the best cases in the whole series, or potentially the best.
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
OBJECTION!
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It's like the flip side of Edgeworth helping Phoenix in grade school. We know Edgeworth as a prosecutor, but then he protested Phoenix was innocent, because it was the right thing to do.
As for the psyche locks, the abscence of them at the start sets out a brilliant twist. If they had appeared at the beginning when Matt said he didnt kill anyone, I dont think Case 4 would have been nearly as emotional and involving as it was.
GS3 is going to have to pull some rabbits out of its hat to top this. 2-4 was one of the best cases in the entire series, if not the best.
Nick and Maya - Friends and Lovers....
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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I also liked how DARK it was. I mean.. they showed the death scenes so many times.. suicide? playing with people? assassins? snuff? personality disorders... etc I thought it was well thought out.
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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grim_tales wrote:
I thought Case 4 was just awesome. I was indeed prepared for it to be generic, I really thought it was going to be a rip-off of the Steel Samurai case from 1-3.. ho-hum. And then.. Maya is kidnapped! Whoa! I really thought there was something odd about that.
To whoever mentioned the music, thats very good thinking. I didnt notice that!
The bad ending leaves a shadow of (Or got me thinking).
Spoilered to be safe.
Spoiler:
To whoever mentioned the music, thats very good thinking. I didnt notice that!
The bad ending leaves a shadow of
(Or got me thinking).Spoilered to be safe.
You didn't need to spoiler tag this post. This whole thread is riddled with spoilers.
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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Click sig to go to my sig thread. If you would like one, you may request. Devoted Phoenix and Maya shipper. Also a Diego and Mia shipper.My fanfic thread. Law, Lust, and Coffee currently ongoing (Miego).
Re: What makes Case 4 so good [Case 4 SPOILERS]
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