case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers* : Kurain (GS2)

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:51 pm

Balrog

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I wish Acro could have, you know, done something other then just cry, NOW THAT seemed, un-Phoenix Wrightish... I mean even Trilo and ben, reacted more then him........ :ben:

Gyakuten Phoenix wrote:

Yeah, well maybe if I wasn't so much better than everyone else, I wouldn't have to talk about it so much.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:06 pm

echo3571

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I hated navigating the circus, the collecting evidence and the general episode was too long, and
how can anyone even be stupid enough (sorry phoenix :nick:

)believe that his cloak would happen to fall off and happen to miraculously latch on to the statue!

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:26 pm

Balrog

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echo3571 wrote:

I hated navigating the circus, the collecting evidence and the general episode was too long, and
how can anyone even be stupid enough (sorry phoenix :nick:

)believe that his cloak would happen to fall off and happen to miraculously latch on to the statue!

But that IS what happened, i mean, its stupid but in the game, true...

Gyakuten Phoenix wrote:

Yeah, well maybe if I wasn't so much better than everyone else, I wouldn't have to talk about it so much.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:16 pm

Szabu

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Nor the characters, neither the plot was the main problem...
But there were 2 things that really annoyed me.

1: Why didn't they pick out the piece of paper from the coat? This was one of the silliest things ever in PW, considering their usual curiosity. It the creators don't want u to read that piece of paper, then don't make it visible. Nonsense...
2: Okay, we already proved several times that Max COULDN'T have killed the ringmaster, but still if we don't present a motive we can lose.

But 2-3 isn't my least fav. case, it's 2-1. It didn't make any sense at all.

My P/M fanfic, Tears of a Fallen Star

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:22 pm

Brandon Strong

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Szabu wrote:

2: Okay, we already proved several times that Max COULDN'T have killed the ringmaster, but still if we don't present a motive we can lose.

That really bugged me, especially considering that Max also didnt have a motive. Its like the judge just totally disregarded everything proving that Max wasn't the murderer simply because Feenies thoery was too farfetched. Which is exactly what would happen in real life, now that I thnk about it...

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:39 am

coffeecookiecake

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i didn't like moe. and yes, the theories were stupid. great coincidences.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:27 am

The Sezza

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Okay, being the massive 2-3 fangirl I am, I think I should probably throw my two cents in here. While the whole plot and the actual case can get a bit, well, strange and convoluted, I can stand them and don't have too much problem with them. But the real reason I love 2-3 so much is because of the characters... and how delightfully screwed up they all are. When you pay attention, you can't help but notice how many problems they all have, and being a bit 'off' myself, this is very appealing to me. I'm kind of tempted to make a topic and ramble on and on about it.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:32 am

PrinceDaniel07

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I've never had too much of a problem with this case. I thought it was funny and interesting, but I do love ridiculously over exaggerated and unlikely stuff. As for the cloak, for some reason I thought that was the only thing that could happen. That it would fall on to the bust. I didn't like Regina and that Max Galactica guy but all the other characters were pretty good, I especially loved Ben and Trilo.

Lovely Rita

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:38 am

Feen

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2-3 is the definition of a perfect Ace Attorney case. It just has that kind of flow.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:44 pm

Deltron

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I don't hate Case 2-3, but I found the murder method to be so unbelievably far-fetched and too coincidental, even for Ace Attorney standards, supernatural occurrences aside.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:50 pm

Wocky Kitaki

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2-3 was an okay case, Moe was good, The rest (minus one other) I could hardly stand, but I would like it more than 2-1 if it wasn't for one person...

Spoiler: He sucks.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:13 pm

Apollo_Wright

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I didn't like case 2-3 all that much... the rest of the 2 cases I loved ((Especially the last)).

I hated Acro...I mean..okay he's crippled but...where was the drama? i just didn't feel it in that case...And Moe's testimony was annoying as hell.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:41 am

Mia_Fey

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I liked it. It wasn't my favorite case, but I thought it was amusing. The only character who really annoyed me was Trilo/Ben and the image of Trilo with Regina has scarred me for life. I found Moe amusing (not his jokes but Phoenix's reaction and Moe's getting whipped in court amused me greatly). Yes the case was a little hard to swallow, but this isn't the first far-fetched case and it won't be the last. Many of the cases are like that and you simply have to suspend disbelief at times to accept what's going on. I also found Acro to be one of the most sympathetic villains (I'm using the term loosely here), which I found to be a nice change of pace from the normal killers.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:47 am

The Sandwich

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Balrog wrote:

I wish Acro could have, you know, done something other then just cry, NOW THAT seemed, un-Phoenix Wrightish... I mean even Trilo and ben, reacted more then him........ :ben:

He can't do a whole lot confined to a wheelchair. Vasquez's breakdown was worse.

fuck

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:50 am

Balrog

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True, but then again thinking back, he didn't care about being caught as much as any other PW character so he really wouldn't react to much...

Gyakuten Phoenix wrote:

Yeah, well maybe if I wasn't so much better than everyone else, I wouldn't have to talk about it so much.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:54 am

The Sandwich

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I wouldn't say he didn't care about getting caught. Murder is a serious charge that could've resulted in him getting the death penalty. Being dead would be a big factor against him seeing his brother open his eyes again. That said, Edgeworth told Gumshoe to go easy on him, what that meant is ambigious, but I assume Acro's still alive and serving a medium prison sentence.

However, I just assume due to fact that he just gives in to accidentally killing the man who was more of a father to him than his own dad overwhelmed him and made him cry.

fuck

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:04 am

Balrog

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When did Edgeworth tell Gumshoe that, I guess I missed it, but what I am trying to say I guess is he didn't seem to do as much as your normal criminals to stop you from finding him out....

Gyakuten Phoenix wrote:

Yeah, well maybe if I wasn't so much better than everyone else, I wouldn't have to talk about it so much.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:14 am

Rebel Vanguard

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I thought case 2-3 was rather interesting...

It isn't exactly one of my favorite cases but maybe the only reason I liked it was because I was really bored and had nothing better to do except play it.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:03 am

grim_tales

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One thing I didn't understand was that Max wouldn't have a motive to kill the Ringmaster, I didn't like Max much, he seemed really arrogant and up his own ass, and no one at the circus liked him.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:52 am

Balrog

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grim_tales wrote:

One thing I didn't understand was that Max wouldn't have a motive to kill the Ringmaster, I didn't like Max much, he seemed really arrogant and up his own ass, and no one at the circus liked him.

Ummmm, what didn't you understand??? :payne:

Gyakuten Phoenix wrote:

Yeah, well maybe if I wasn't so much better than everyone else, I wouldn't have to talk about it so much.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:13 pm

grim_tales

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What motive would Max have? The whole case is so flimsy, the real murderer (Acro) had no motive either, it was an accident, the prosecution doesn't say why Max would do it and the whole thing is based on seeing a shadow of Max?

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:32 pm

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grim_tales wrote:

What motive would Max have? The whole case is so flimsy, the real murderer (Acro) had no motive either, it was an accident, the prosecution doesn't say why Max would do it and the whole thing is based on seeing a shadow of Max?

Nobody in the circus would have a motive if they'd were the one who committed the crime. I think the prosecution didn't take the motive into consideration in this case, simply because they didn't know what exactly it was.

With that said, the case was misty from the very beginning. The trial was set up anyways; and probably in hopes of getting new details about what really happened. Max was the one who was arrested because of the shadow, sure, but the police didn't let go the others as well. Acro and Moe had to be questioned by the police before Phoenix had the chance to talk to them. This hasn't been showcased in other cases this much, usually witnesses of a crime were directly approachable, or were not questioned in the very beginning during your investigation.

They were thoroughly investigating this case more carefully than the others because many things were so unclear, see? I'm pretty sure they were eager to gather a motive for the murder, they just needed more details. The police could have thought Max was hiding something, because Max is hard to believe as a person well, because as said, he acts like an asshole~

That's my take on it.

Last edited by Happiness Punch! on Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:28 pm

Mia_Fey

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When has lack of motive ever stopped the prosecution? There are multiple cases where motive isn't even brought up. Off the top of my head 1-2 (for neither Maya nor Phoenix is motive even an issue), 1-3 (quick mention that Powers has none, but this doesn't stop the trial), and 1-5 for Lana (it even states that she and Goodman had no real connection). I think motive does come up in all of the second except 2-3 although a couple are weak.

Edit: Additional thought, it wasn't really an accident. Acro did have a motive and did plan to murder Regina. The fact that it killed the Ringmaster by mistake doesn't change that the murder was not only committed but premeditated.

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Last edited by Mia_Fey on Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:37 pm

Tinker

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I don't like the case a lot because while it introduces you to the almost the whole cast of characters on day 1, Acro is only introduced on day 2. On that day, you get the whole background story spammed at you, so day 1 seems stupidly irrelevant. Other than that, no-one of the circus characters has much of a background at all.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:44 pm

Wrestler Hatman

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GearsoftheApparatus wrote:

I just really hated the characters, and the overall plot of the case to uninteresting. I did like it more than 1-3, however.

You don't count, you hate everything.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:57 pm

1010

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I actually really like Moe. I felt bad for him because no one liked his jokes, actually... >__>; Poor guy.

Honestly, I dislike all of JFA except case 4, and even that case is annoying to replay unless you're in the mood because it's so long. The reason I don't like case 3 is because of Regina. Her existance alone ruined the case.

She is an example of a person that I would never, ever be friends with, let alone talk to. The thing that pissed me off the most was that she didn't even care that her father died. We never actually MET Russel Berry, but we know that he was nice man that would do anything for his daughter. (Although I don't think he was correct in teaching his daughter dead people become stars.) And she's all happy and jumping around and going "OMG HAHAHA I LIKE LIONS AND TIGERS" the day after he gets killed.

Alright, Regina. It's your fault your lion died. It's your fault Bat is in a coma. It's your fault your father died. It's your fault this whole mess happened. Why? Because you can't use a bottle of peper.

Other than Regina, case 3 is alright IMO. Aside from characters, people probably don't like it because the murder is too farfetched. (THE CLOAK JUST HAPPENED TO CATCH ONTO THE BUST!) Personally, I don't see how that's any less crazy than Manfred von Karma's overly-complicated revenge plan and no one seems to hate 1-4.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:31 pm

grim_tales

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Regina was probably brought up to believe the "dead people become stars" stuff by her father as I guess its a nicer thing to believe. I thought she'd be more cut up about her father even so (I actually thought she was the murderer at the start!) I didnt think she was a bad person, but very sweet and naive, and also like "HAPPY! OMG HAPPY!", it bordered on annoying.
Acro's plan to murder Regina was OTT!

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:44 pm

Mia_Fey

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Regina was extremely naive, but is it really her fault that she was so sheltered? That was why Moe insisted that she had to see the trial, so that she could finally deal with reality and grow up. I never really had that big a problem with her (Although there are probably some tree stumps with more personality. She was a relatively flat character). How is believing people become stars after death any different then believing in heaven? I know adults who believe in heaven and hell. Its a major part of many religions. I agree that Acro's plan was a bit over the top, but its not easy to kill someone from a wheel chair. This isn't the first case where the murder plan was overly complex.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:02 pm

grim_tales

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I agree! IMO it was a pleasant way to deal with death, if there is such a thing, like reincartion/heaven. Not only his "plan" was OTT, wanting to kill Regina was OTT, IMO. I realised he's pissed at her and blames her for what happened to Bat and all, but it seemed an awful thing to do to a sheltered girl like Regina, IMO.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:44 pm

Mia_Fey

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I agree about Acro's motive. Poor Regina! I felt bad for both her and Acro at the end. I almost felt like the case was supposed to show how ugly hatred can make a person and how horrible the consequences of such hatred can be. There may also have been some commentary on ignorance in there because you can't deny that this started with Regina, but I couldn't even dislike her for it. I used to work with really little kids a lot (camp counselor and babysitter), and mentally she reminded me of many of them. She can't help that she was so sheltered and that because of this she made a stupid mistake, but because of that her father is dead, Acro is in jail, and Bat is in a coma. She truly didn't understand the consequences of her actions. On the other hand Acro almost lost his brother and then in an attempt to get revenge, he losses a man who was like a father to him. Acro wasn't a bad person, but his rage and hatred twisted him with horrible consequences.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:10 am

xylophone220

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I only dislike the case because I hate the circus and am terrified of clowns. Every minute of Moe's testimony was freaking painfullll.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:15 am

grim_tales

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Yeah, Regina didn't understand the consequences of what she did - but shouldn't Bat also take some of the blame, I mean, the hanky had loads of pepper on it and she asks him to put his head in a lion's mouth - I would of thought "Hang on a sec..."
There wasn't actual malice in what Regina did IMO, she certainly didnt want to hurt Bat, much less put him in a coma. To her, it was a bit of fun, that turned tragically wrong.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:10 pm

xylophone220

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grim_tales wrote:

Yeah, Regina didn't understand the consequences of what she did - but shouldn't Bat also take some of the blame, I mean, the hanky had loads of pepper on it and she asks him to put his head in a lion's mouth - I would of thought "Hang on a sec..."

Eh? He didn't realize there was pepper on it.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:54 pm

Mia_Fey

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grim_tales wrote:

shouldn't Bat also take some of the blame, I mean, the hanky had loads of pepper on it and she asks him to put his head in a lion's mouth - I would of thought "Hang on a sec..."

Not only that, but from what the game says, he volunteered to put his head in the lion's mouth. Regina didn't even suggest it. I hadn't thought of that, but it is a good point. While we're at it, it was the Ringmaster who kept Regina so sheltered. She was sixteen (and would have been fourteen at the time of Bat's accident), time to cut the chord and let her grow up a bit. She believed she could marry a puppet!! A sixteen year old should not be mentally the same as a three year old. Hell, even most of the three year olds I've babysat know that a puppet is a toy!

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Last edited by Mia_Fey on Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:00 pm

xylophone220

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Anything is possible in the circus, and I guess it's s shame that Russel let her believe that's what real life is.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:28 pm

grim_tales

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Didn't Regina say she would go on a date with Bat if he put his head in the lion's mouth? Even if he didnt initially notice the pepper, you would think Regina covering it with "as much pepper as she could" would make Bat think something was up. The puppet thing showed Regina to be not only sheltered, but possibly mentally unbalanced (not bad). She didnt know fantasy from reality. As you say Mia, for a 14 year old wanting to marry a PUPPET is ludicrous.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:30 pm

xylophone220

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She said, but he suggested it. And about the pepper...well, without an actual amount it's kind of hard to say anything on that. "As much pepper as she could" would've varied depending on a lot of things, and he might not have noticed at all.

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:30 pm

grim_tales

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True.
Maybe Bat had a cold? We'll never know, the game doesnt say.

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Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:57 pm

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I'm new there, and I've just noticed this topic...why? ;_; well, you must know turnabout big top it's my favorite JFA case, so I'm a bit (uh, not a bit) sad ù__ù I really don't understand why so much hate for it...is it 'cause it's so far-fetched?? I was disappointed too, discoverin' the "truth about the cloak"..it's very difficult to think, yes. maybe a lot of people don't like it 'cause the murder itself was an accident, nothing more?
I think this case is the symbol of PW cases...it's writhed, with unexpected events (that's my impression..maybe it's me who is too easily surprised :yuusaku:

)

and then....why so much hate for Acro?? ;____; of course it's possible that some people hate him, but why so many people? it's something I still cannot explain .__. he's one of my fav characters..that's not for his misfortune at all. I absolutely don't feel sorry for him! instead I love his character..he's kind, sweet, and always smiling...anyway he hides a deep sadness, that's what interests me. I like these characters, who constantly try not to show their real feelings....
..at the end he bursts into tears..so what? he's human, and isn't able to hide his feelings anymore. He cries 'cause he killed the ringmaster (his father, uncle, big brother...), and his brother his in a coma....isn't it more than natural?
He isn't credible as a villain, in fact he isn't a villain. I got the impression that he costantly tries to give us clues in order to suspect him (of course it isn't so difficult to suspect him, but that's not the point :P), such as showing the bloody scarf. Then I like him 'cause he doesn't run away from his 'destiny'..he killed a person, and he's ready to be punished for that. He could have said he was also a victim, when Judge asked him (I dunno if something would change, anyway...), though he didn't..he admitted his own guilt.

OK, sorry for annoying you! now I'll stop with that! I only wanted to give you the reasons why I like this case (and Acro! :acro:

) so much *__* even if I'm the only one :edgy:

PS: as always, please turn a blind eye to my english..it's not soo good.... :ack:

Re: case 2-3 why so much hate *spoliers*

Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:18 pm

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Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:54 pm

Posts: 32

I loved this casd. I felt both the case itself was really interesting and a little unusual for a PW case, and the recurring characters were written very well in it.