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Phoenix must be smart?Topic%20Title
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Keisan Loire

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Sorry if this has been done before. but i was thinking.
Phoenix is a lawyer...to do law or go to law school u have to have AMAZING grades and be INCREDIBLY smart. That means Phoenix must have been smart!
Im not saying he's dumb, its just that he doesn't seem AMAZINGLY smart
what do people think?
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Re: Phoenix must be smart?Topic%20Title
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hmm... i think Phoenix has a little bit of absense of both street smarts and books smarts. Hes more of those quick thinking type of people in my opinion... :gymshoe:
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Keisan Loire

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Yup i agree.. so how'd he get intplaw school? lol
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Perhaps the school system is more lax in the future, or maybe he's one of those that "barely get by." He does just enough to pass/be competent.
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maybe its his quick thinking that got him through that and the fact he promised mia hed study his butt off.
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I think Phoenix is quite smart (I agree street-smarts is not a strong point...how many times has he shown vital evidence to the bad guy? Lets try a little common sense here!) His internal monologue is usually witty (and sarcastic!), and he does solve these cases while outhinking the bad guys (well us technically, but we are him when we're playing!). Luck plays a role.
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Re: Phoenix must be smart?Topic%20Title

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Law schools of the future clearly pass or fail students based on how loudly they can shout "Objection!"
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Kyunji wrote:
Law schools of the future clearly pass or fail students based on how loudly they can shout "Objection!"

Congratulations, you just won the internet! XD

I always thought Phoenix was fairly smart, though his lack of knowledge on certain subjects (ballistics, evidence law, etc.) is a little astounding.
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Nexas-kun wrote:
Yup i agree.. so how'd he get intplaw school? lol


Law schools are merciful. My dad took the bar exams 5 times before he passed ._.
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No offense to anyone who is in law school... But a lot of the kids I've met that are in law school, no brighter than I am.
And I do average in school.

I don't think you have to be particularly smart to be a lawyer. I think in Phoenix's case it is more his determination and drive to become a lawyer that gets him through. After all, he HAS to help his "friend". Being determined can get you pretty far.
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I think Phoenix is pretty smart academically, and has more common sense than some (Such as Maya or Ron DeLite) but the fact he's surrounded by geniuses and prodigies probably makes him come off as a little slow. Another half of it would be that if Phoenix knew everything already then there'd be no way to explain things for the gamer if they didn't (it was Maya who didn't know ballistic markings, correct?).

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Nexas-kun wrote:
so how'd he get intplaw school? lol

He did a few "favors" for his teachers.. :hotti:
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ButzPuff wrote:
Nexas-kun wrote:
so how'd he get intplaw school? lol

He did a few "favors" for his teachers.. :hotti:


*runs off, grabs a keyboard, and comes back in*
*plays* BUM BUM BUUUUUUM!
Yes, he slayed their enemies with his spiky hair....OH. You meant that. XDDD (No, I'm kidding, I knew.)
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Stupid question, but is Jack Thompson really smart? *shot*
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Didn't he teach himself Law?
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Marsha2112 wrote:
Didn't he teach himself Law?

Uh...depends which one your talkin about if ur talking about who i might u be talking about were starting to drift away from the topic here...
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clearly no ones actually looked at his degree, he used his art student skills and wrote it in crayons! :object:
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TheeGoblin wrote:
clearly no ones actually looked at his degree, he used his art student skills and wrote it in crayons! :object:

if thats true then his attorneys badge is also fake! (which its not)
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Re: Phoenix must be smart?Topic%20Title
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Degrees don't really matter as an undergrad so long as you know your stuff, or so I'm told; I have a relative who majored in English but went on to study law. I imagine Phoenix finished his art degree, studied for and passed the LSAT (I'm guessing with a lot of help from Mia), and went to law school immediately afterwards.

Phoenix must be either really smart or really lucky to have passed the bar so quickly, though (there's barely a three year gap between his last months as a 4th year undergrad and his first case, so he must have passed the test during or immediately after law school); I think I only know one person in RL who passed it on their first try.
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I kinda figured he maintained contact with Mia after his case and she helped him out....with her evil bokken of doom. And she does have one, seriously, it's in a fan comic. She breaks it by hitting a wall so hard the remains of the bokken smokes. When you're being threatened with something like that you study HARD. (I know from experience, but in my case it was my mom and her scary as hell yelling voice. ^.^')
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"MR WRIGHT! WHAT DID THE CASE OF ROE V. WADE ACCOMPLISH!?"
"LEGALIZED ABORTION, SIR!"
"GOOD! WHAT DID BROWN V. BOE DO!?"
"OVERTURNED THE "SEPARATE, BUT EQUAL" SEGREGATION LAW!"
"GOOD! WHAT'S TWO PLUS THREE?"
"Um....THE COLOR ORANGE, SIR?"
"WRONG! BUT 2/3 ISN'T BAD! YOU PASS!"
"Alright!"

And it pretty much went like that.
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RazeTora wrote:
"MR WRIGHT! WHAT DID THE CASE OF ROE V. WADE ACCOMPLISH!?"
"LEGALIZED ABORTION, SIR!"
"GOOD! WHAT DID BROWN V. BOE DO!?"
"OVERTURNED THE "SEPARATE, BUT EQUAL" SEGREGATION LAW!"
"GOOD! WHAT'S TWO PLUS THREE?"
"Um....THE COLOR ORANGE, SIR?"
"WRONG! BUT 2/3 ISN'T BAD! YOU PASS!"
"Alright!"

And it pretty much went like that.

sounds more like what mia would quiz him on lol
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It does actually, but probably with more criminal cases as opposed to civil cases. He is a criminal defense attorney after all. I can't se Phoenix handling a malpractice suit.
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Keisan Loire

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Tajiri Ami wrote:
Kyunji wrote:
Law schools of the future clearly pass or fail students based on how loudly they can shout "Objection!"

Congratulations, you just won the internet! XD

I always thought Phoenix was fairly smart, though his lack of knowledge on certain subjects (ballistics, evidence law, etc.) is a little astounding.

Lol of course xD


Allucinari wrote:
No offense to anyone who is in law school... But a lot of the kids I've met that are in law school, no brighter than I am.
And I do average in school.

I don't think you have to be particularly smart to be a lawyer. I think in Phoenix's case it is more his determination and drive to become a lawyer that gets him through. After all, he HAS to help his "friend". Being determined can get you pretty far.


Hmm i dunno i was thinking of studying law at one point vut i'd need to get like all A's for my exams....not gonna happen :(
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The point was that Phoenix worked really really hard for his law degree. He did well not so much because of his brains, but rather his passion and determination and all that fuzzy feelings business. Can't you imagine him trying to study so hard to pass his tests?

As for people who mentioned the LSAT... I don't think they have those in Japan (correct me if I'm wrong, I am no expert in Japanese law). We have to remember that the law system (and therefore the law school system) is nothing like any law system currently in practice, but based more on the Japanese system than anything.

Miles Edgeworth proves the fact that the system has to be fairly different from ours.
He attended 4th grade at the same time as Phoenix and Larry, they were all 9 years old.
The next time Edgeworth surfaces, he is a 20 year old prosecutor. Phoenix is presumably a second year art student at Ivy University. Under the US system, law school takes about three years. Meaning Edgeworth started law school when Phoenix was probably a senior in high school.
To get into law school, you already need a 4 year Bachelors Degree, meaning Edgeworth was 13 when he started university classes, while Phoenix was probably finishing up middle school/junior high/whatever you call it where you come from.
That means in four years Edgeworth managed to cover material from fifth through twelfth grade. It's pretty much impossible to do and so I think it proves my point that law school in AA/GS land is clearly pretty different than it is elsewhere.

That means there could be drastically different educational standards, so maybe Phoenix didn't really need to be that smart to get by.
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Allucinari wrote:
The point was that Phoenix worked really really hard for his law degree. He did well not so much because of his brains, but rather his passion and determination and all that fuzzy feelings business. Can't you imagine him trying to study so hard to pass his tests?

As for people who mentioned the LSAT... I don't think they have those in Japan (correct me if I'm wrong, I am no expert in Japanese law). We have to remember that the law system (and therefore the law school system) is nothing like any law system currently in practice, but based more on the Japanese system than anything.

Miles Edgeworth proves the fact that the system has to be fairly different from ours.
He attended 4th grade at the same time as Phoenix and Larry, they were all 9 years old.
The next time Edgeworth surfaces, he is a 20 year old prosecutor. Phoenix is presumably a second year art student at Ivy University. Under the US system, law school takes about three years. Meaning Edgeworth started law school when Phoenix was probably a senior in high school.
To get into law school, you already need a 4 year Bachelors Degree, meaning Edgeworth was 13 when he started university classes, while Phoenix was probably finishing up middle school/junior high/whatever you call it where you come from.
That means in four years Edgeworth managed to cover material from fifth through twelfth grade. It's pretty much impossible to do and so I think it proves my point that law school in AA/GS land is clearly pretty different than it is elsewhere.

That means there could be drastically different educational standards, so maybe Phoenix didn't really need to be that smart to get by.


ah ok thanks :will:
and just so you know the law sysytem where i am would be the scottish one(which is different to the english one for some reason)
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Re: Phoenix must be smart?Topic%20Title
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There are alternative methods to get good grades :april:
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Spoiler: 1-4
Edgeworth was taken in by von Karma after DL-6, so it's not hard to see why he might have gone through school so fast. Manfred raised all his children to become prodigies.
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True...wasn't Franziska a professional Prosecutor at 16?
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Jenna_Darknight wrote:
True...wasn't Franziska a professional Prosecutor at 16?

13 :P
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Ah, I lose track. But I do remember Edgeworth's first case was at 20...so yeah...those Von Karmas (and Edgeworth by proxy) are tenacious.
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Okay, so, I don't think Phoenix is SMART smart, but he isn't not smart either :P He's just way, WAY too naive.
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He certainly can think on his feet, so I'd say he's farily clever and a quick thinker. Also, from his thoughts we can see he does have a rather dry wit. I'd just say he doesn't have a very good survival instinct...and he's also not very good with judging people .

Spoiler:
I mean, he dated :chinami: for Christ's sake!

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To find so many contradictions all the time in such little time, I think Phoenix would have to be pretty damn smart. Good grades don't exactly make someone smart, and he might have not made good grades but just got lucky. But either way, to be such a great lawyer, I would say that he would have to be extremely smart.
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Jenna_Darknight wrote:
Spoiler:
I mean, he dated :chinami: for Christ's sake!


Spoiler: Huge PW3 spoiler!!!!!!!!!
He dated her twin Iris who was pretending to be Dahlia for reasons I won't explain here.

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Spoiler:
I know he dated her twin, but he didn't see the difference between the two until AFTER Mia wins his case. He's either really dense or just not able to judge people well.

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Spoiler: still huge PW3 spoiler!!!!!!
I actually agree with you that he isn't always the best judge of character, particularly young Phoenix (who is absolutely extremely naive), but I don't think this is the best example. He had a shockingly small amount of contact with Dahlia, so I don't find it that far-fetched that he wouldn't have realized (particularly considering that Dahlia's speciality was fooling people with her innocent act). There was their first meeting and then right before he was arrested when she asked him to keep quiet about her being there. There's no indication that they had any other contact and Iris even says that at all other times it was her. Don't get me wrong, I agree with the point, I'm just not sure the example works.

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...touche. Point taken.

just out of curiosity, who do you think would be a better example?
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Re: Phoenix must be smart?Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: spoilers for 2-2 and 2-4
A hard question, but here are a few ideas that come to mind. You can agree or not. Adrian Andrews- his first opinion of her is as a strong confidant woman, when in fact she is not even slightly close. He only finds this out from Edgeworth. Later on during one cross-examination, he also comments that she seems quite together, but Mia corrects him saying Adrian actually appears to be rather nervous. He also thinks she was the killer at first. Matt Engarde- first opinion, too dense to do anything on his own and believes he is innocent. Now on the later part, this was not entirely his fault. Phoenix was misled by the magatama not reacting and the fact that he dearly needed Engarde to be innocent so he could defend him without conflict. Still when he finds out Engarde is guilty, you can tell how betrayed he feels. He even states something like..."I trusted you." Last example I can think of is Ini Mini. First opinion is that she is a rather large ditz without a firm grip on reality. It isn't until the second day of investigation he comes to suspect her. I'm not certain those are the best examples, but those are the ones that come to mind first.

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...Those are definitely better than my initial arguement, aprticularly andrews and Eguarde...I tend to forget about the former for some reason.
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