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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

True love is forever.

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All the Phoenix pairings have baggage attached to them and that is all I will say for the moment. There are two threads debating Phoenix/Iris in the forum based on the third game where I've stated my arguments. Since I rather not repeat myself, why don't we discuss a pairing that has gotten less press? I'm thinking Godot/Mia. I love Diego/Mia, but after everything that happens in the game I have trouble seeing Godot/Mia. She just seems so angry and distant with him throughout. Perhaps at the very end after his "confession," but even then I feel as though Mia would have trouble forgiving him for betraying everything they fought for together. Betraying the things she believed so much. Now discuss.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title
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So moe for Makoto it's funny.

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Isn't it... sort of moot?

Given that, uh, they're both dead?
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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Yeah, Godot's relationship with Mia is just too far gone to be saved. It's obvious that he still loves her, but whenever Mia is speaking to him, she's cold and distant. I mean, she doesn't even use his name, just calling him "prosecutor" *In 3-2 at least* (And I'm pretty sure she'd recognize him.). Although who knows, considering
Spoiler: GAME ENDING SPOILERZ
that they're both dead now, perhaps they could find some way to make up in the PW afterlife. (Assuming it exists.)

But yeah, Funk is right, the discussion is pretty pointless. :payne:

Last edited by KingofMarySues on Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

True love is forever.

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Spoiler: T&T spoilers for the ending
Well during T&T Godot isn't dead and Mia is channeled constantly. Perhaps there wouldn't be sex with Mia in her sister's body, but does love still bloom between them? Also, there is the afterlife deal since spirits obviously live on in the game and just general feelings before and after. They are pictured together at the end.
I don't find during the game pointless, but rehashing the same debate over Phoenix and Iris doesn't seem amusing either. I'm open to suggestions that haven't been debated to death. :edgy:
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title
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Digeo/Mia could of easily been true in the past but Phoenix/Iris is just. Kinda unbelievable unless they take back everything that happened in Apollo Justice. Even though it's unlikely i still love the pair.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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Mia_Fey wrote:
Spoiler: T&T spoilers for the ending
Well during T&T Godot isn't dead and Mia is channeled constantly. Perhaps there wouldn't be sex with Mia in her sister's body, but does love still bloom between them? Also, there is the afterlife deal since spirits obviously live on in the game and just general feelings before and after. They are pictured together at the end.
I don't find during the game pointless, but rehashing the same debate over Phoenix and Iris doesn't seem amusing either. I'm open to suggestions that haven't been debated to death. :edgy:


Well, I have nothing better to do.
Spoiler: 3-5 Godot and Mia spoilers
Well, considering how cold Mia was to Godot throughout T&T, it's rather obvious that she doesn't like how he became a prosecutor and basicially abandoned his previous life- the life in which he met her. At any rate, I never really thought of him being next to Godot as symbolic of any sort of relationship, I assumed that it was just supposed to signify that Godot was dead. But meh, I suppose that if Godot and Mia could work those issues out, they could live happily ever after.


And I agree that rehashing the same debate regarding Phoenix/Iris wouldn't be fun anyhow.

Spoiler: ZOMG PHOENIX SPOILERS
coughcoughhesobviouslygayforEdgeworthanywaycoughcough
Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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No pairings have really been ruled out by GS4 from what I've read.
Spoiler: GS4
Most of the old characters are completely absent, so if you rule out one on that basis you rule them all out. As for Phoenix's transition, i can't see Iris leaving him simply because he's having a hard time. If anything, I imagine she'd hang on more to try to help him. Iris's love for him has always been unconditional (as her love for Dahlia was). So I don't find it less likely because of GS4.

Anyway though, the Phoenix/Iris pairing has been done to death in two other threads that were devoted to this kind of debate. Let's discuss another pairing with less debate around it. More fun to cover new ground rather than repeating old arguments again and again. How about :lana: / :jake: ? I found some of the stuff in 1-5 as hinting rather strongly at it and with everything behind her, I could see it happening. I'm open to other suggestions of couples who haven't been done to death.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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Hmm... that's a good one. I think the biggest clue for a Lana-Jake Relationship would be this right here- ( blatantly Stolen from the "Favorite PW Pairings" Topic pg 2.) "
1-5:
:jake: -Talks about Lana being the killer-
:ema: Mr. Marshall...How can you say that?! You and Lana, you were--
:marhsal: ...
:jake: Sorry bambina, something got to me for a moment.
*OR something like that*
Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title
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EDIT: Ah Sorry, I was in Quick Reply so I typed out the Tags.
---

I'm not sure if this has been covered before but Trucy and Apollo Would never work because
Spoiler: ALL OF GS4 AND YOUR BEDROOM WALLS!!!
They share a Mother!

Kay had two daddies. Trucy had THREE daddies. Clearly Trucy is the winner.


Last edited by Jeshi on Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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You need to fix that spoiler tab now, Jeshi!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title
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OHEMJEEE.

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GAAAH. MY EYEEEES!

I need to slap Jeshi. I DID NOT KNOW THAT.

Thanks for spoiling me.
Pairings: Miego, FeenRis, EdgeyFran, KlavEma, CloTi, Zerith, Vincrecia.
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Faith is for the transient people.

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I'm sorry Graph! If I had saw it earlier I would've been able to tip Croik off on it earlier DDD:

(I wish people would READ THE DAMN RULES... -.-)
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title
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OHEMJEEE.

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'S fine, I guess. I don't mind character-related spoilers as much as case-related spoilers. The part I don't want given away is the killer; I usually spoil myself to the characters.
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OW MY FACE!

How was I supposed to know you STILL HAD to include the = in the Spoiler Tag if you weren't Going to Say what it was Spoiling!

I didn't mean to Spoil anything!
Kay had two daddies. Trucy had THREE daddies. Clearly Trucy is the winner.
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OHEMJEEE.

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Okay, just gonna get this over with so I don't ever have to scream at you again.

The fact that you capitalize words smack in the middle of your sentences annoys the crap out of me. Please, think before you capitalize.

I'm going to be on-topic and nice again now.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

True love is forever.

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Jeshi wrote:
How was I supposed to know you STILL HAD to include the = in the Spoiler Tag if you weren't Going to Say what it was Spoiling!

This is the Defense Lobby. Anything GS4 should be tagged and LABELED. You shouldn't ever post unlabeled GS4 spoilers here and I mean ever. People don't expect them in this area and will open them unknowingly. GS4 goes in the Prosecutor's Lobby (and should still be marked with spoilers unless the topic is already marked). Please remember that in the future.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title
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Secretary of Rainbows.

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Graph wrote:
Okay, just gonna get this over with so I don't ever have to scream at you again.

The fact that you capitalize words smack in the middle of your sentences annoys the crap out of me. Please, think before you capitalize.

I'm going to be on-topic and nice again now.


I don't see why it annoys Everybody So much, You should be paying more attention to the Letters then If they are Capital Or not.

Anyways, Regarless of that its a Bad Habit I Get when I Touch Type.

would you rather I type in all lowercase OR ALL CAPITALS?

Because I find that some words even look better capitalized and also that I make a lot more typos when I actually try NOT to capitalize
any word but the one at the beginning.

And yes I will Try to remember that in the future.
Kay had two daddies. Trucy had THREE daddies. Clearly Trucy is the winner.
Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title
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I don't think Mia's attitude towards Godot was cold in the slightest. (Well, for Mia anyway. Compared to how she acted in 2-4, 3-5 is downright warm in comparison) Yes, they were on opposite sides of the court now, and very aware of it, but:

Spoiler: 3-5
- She asked if Godot was okay with where the trial was heading. If she was truly out for his blood, why bother? Just spur Phoenix on. Instead, again, that understanding comes into place because she instantly grasps what he's doing and why he's doing it--and still checks to see if it's really okay with him.

- When Godot let loose one of his puzzling figures of speech towards the end, Mia turned to Phoenix, smiled and translated for him. That shows that even after all this time and all these years, she still understands him.

- Maya went against Phoenix in order to protect Godot--this is after Mia and Maya had a discussion. While I don't think Mia asked her to do that, it's very hard for me to imagine Maya going against "Nick" in something this important unless she hadn't come away with an incredibly strong impression that this man was very precious to her sister.

- At the very end, Mia thanks Phoenix for saving him when she couldn't. Again, how does that come across as cold? I don't get it...

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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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Mia/Godot
Spoiler: major T&T spoiler
She stays extremely distant and even at the end of 3-5, Godot seems to sense that distance. Mia never refers to him as Godot or Prosecutor Godot like everyone else. The use of a name in general tends to be more familiar (not always indicating being on good terms with a person but just familiarity with a person and she seems to go out of her way to rebuff this familiarity), but the use of just his title seems extremely distant to me. I understand they don't want to refer to him as Diego in 3-2, but by 3-5 it really isn't a secret anymore. Still he is "Prosecutor" in a very formal distant way. He even refers to her as "Madame Attorney" and since its no secret who Mia is, I can assume even Godot realized there was a wall between them now. In 3-2, its clear they recognize each other, but when Mia responds I read the comment as not only being extremely conscious of this new distance but almost mocking. "..,Prosecutor." I do think that the mocking attitude is absent in 3-5 as he was coming to be closer to being "saved," but there it still seemed like there was a wall neither of them could cross. The very fact that he needed "saving" indicates to me that Mia disapproved seriously of his actions (for obvious reasons).

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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title
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To Mia_Fey:

Spoiler: T&T
She calls him, "Diego" at the end of 3-5. While I agree that she seems slightly distant, I'm not even sure that she knew he was alive. I would be shocked to find a murder victim still breathing, and Grossberg's comments in 3-1 suggest that the case was treated as if the victim had indeed died. I do

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OHEMJEEE.

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Continued... (I am typing this on an iPod, and the screen can't accomodate very much text.)

Spoiler: T&T
that the two still cared for each other, but Mia was not yet used to the idea of his survival.

Pairings: Miego, FeenRis, EdgeyFran, KlavEma, CloTi, Zerith, Vincrecia.
Just a note, all: I haven't been on in a while, so I'm trying to get my little persona here back in order. I won't be on as much in the future, maybe a few times a week. Sorry!
Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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Possible, but...
Spoiler: T&T spoiler
Godot almost falls over himself in shock at seeing Mia. He can't even speak for several minutes, but Mia steps in like nothings changed except for a long pause before she calls him "Prosecutor.". Had she simply not recognized him then there is no reason for the pause or the calculated distance, but had she been truly shocked to see the man she loves alive then I'm surprised that she didn't react more like Godot. Miles is "Prosecutor Edgeworth" and Franziska is "Prosecutor Von Karma". Only Godot is "...Prosecutor." I need to replay 3-1, but if I'm remembering correctly, it is never referred to as a murder and I'm not certain that Mia would have believed he was actually dead without evidence, although since it isn't specified then I'll except that it's possible Mia might not have known. On the other hand, I have trouble believing that Mia would not have tried to find out what had happened to the man she loved (and I do believe she loved Diego deeply) and that she would never have visited. Godot certainly believed that Mia would have been waiting for him when he finally woke up and was destroyed to discover she was dead. She does finally call him Diego at the end after he has been "saved" and so I think some kind of reconciliation could be possible if Mia was capable of forgiving him for everything he did (perhaps reconciliation in the afterlife sort of thing). Still I'm not sure if her reaction is continued love as much as her being happy that her former love was no longer in distress.

Just my two cents though. :edgy:
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Last edited by Mia_Fey on Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title
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OHEMJEEE.

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I have just been plonged. Technically, though, it's the same pairing either way. That was barely a debate and I lost miserably.

You're good. :godot:
Pairings: Miego, FeenRis, EdgeyFran, KlavEma, CloTi, Zerith, Vincrecia.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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Thank you! You made some very good points. That was fun!
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DON'T INTERRUPT ME, JUSTICE!!!

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Now what shall be discussed?
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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I'm still in the mood for Jake/Lana if anyone wants to chip in their opinions. There are some interesting hints in 1-5 and not nearly enough debate on the couple. :edgy:
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So moe for Makoto it's funny.

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we've done P/E....

Uh.

...Ziska/Maya?
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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The problem with Franziska/Maya is that the characters lack much interaction with eachother, so debate is going to be pretty tough, but it would certainly be interesting and different.

As for the Jake/Lana, I think that quote earlier on the page sums it up pretty well. Another couple things that Ema says implies that Lana was also closer to Jake than her own sister, so at the very least, it's an EXTREMELY close friendship.
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The Franny/Maya thing doesn't sit very well for me, mainly because there wasn't enough character interaction to make it believable.

The Jake/Lana thing is understood mainly through other characters explanations, so it's debatable on whether they were viewed as a couple when they were just close friends or if they were actually involved.
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So moe for Makoto it's funny.

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Well we're not debating its canon, we're just saying... it'd be really really cute XD

Because Franziska for whatever reason can't get mad at Maya the way she can at others. (See: 3-5 ending)
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Re: The pairing debate thread!Topic%20Title

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I'm probably going to regret this, but I'll take voice my opinion on Franziska/Maya. It's going under a spoiler tag because I don't want to sit here debating what is and is not a spoiler.
Spoiler: JFA and T&T
I agree that I have trouble with the pairing because there is so little character interaction and for the entire second game, they seem to be oblivious to each other. Outside of the fact that they're the same age and opposites attract, I don't see much to it. Now, Maya does make a comment in 2-3 if you present Franziska's profile where she says something like "We could be friends if she wasn't so mean" and Phoenix responds "But the problem is that she is so mean," but I have trouble believing that this meant any romantic interaction as Maya wants to be everyone's friend. That's just her personality. Franziska does also seem to be genuinely concerned about Maya in 3-5, but she's also concerned about Phoenix, Pearl, Bikini (a part which always amuses me because Phoenix teases her and she whips him yet again), and Miles. I think a part of that is the attempt to show the change in Franziska's personality in that she has grown up some and is slowly opening up emotionally. We never see Maya's reaction to any of this except for her shock at the end seeing Franziska, but considering the fact that she fled the country in the last game, that shock doesn't surprise me or really indicate anything more than general surprise. She is also surprised to see Miles. So other than a few very cute fanart pics, I just have trouble taking the pairing seriously.

It could be very cute if there was more to it though.
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
Because Franziska for whatever reason can't get mad at Maya the way she can at others. (See: 3-5 ending)


...judging by Friska's inexplicable awkwardness around Maya (I blame the overbearing cheerfulness, myself), one would think that would lead to Maya being the dominant partner...which seems almost as random and silly as Gant reforming his ways and adopting Pearl and Cody with only pure intentions. XD
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(I apologize that you're going to have to go piece by piece here and see what parts of your post my parts correspond to, but I couldn't get the quotes to work the way I wanted them to, so I'm going to have to keep your post to one huge quote.)

Mia_Fey wrote:
I'm probably going to regret this, but I'll take voice my opinion on Franziska/Maya. It's going under a spoiler tag because I don't want to sit here debating what is and is not a spoiler.
Spoiler: JFA and T&T
I agree that I have trouble with the pairing because there is so little character interaction and for the entire second game, they seem to be oblivious to each other. Outside of the fact that they're the same age and opposites attract, I don't see much to it. Now, Maya does make a comment in 2-3 if you present Franziska's profile where she says something like "We could be friends if she wasn't so mean" and Phoenix responds "But the problem is that she is so mean," but I have trouble believing that this meant any romantic interaction as Maya wants to be everyone's friend. That's just her personality. Franziska does also seem to be genuinely concerned about Maya in 3-5, but she's also concerned about Phoenix, Pearl, Bikini (a part which always amuses me because Phoenix teases her and she whips him yet again), and Miles. I think a part of that is the attempt to show the change in Franziska's personality in that she has grown up some and is slowly opening up emotionally. We never see Maya's reaction to any of this except for her shock at the end seeing Franziska, but considering the fact that she fled the country in the last game, that shock doesn't surprise me or really indicate anything more than general surprise.
[/QUOTE]


Introduction-
Now why would you regret it? It's not as if Funk and I would start chasing after you with torches... not yet, anyway. >_>

And good idea, I'll do the same. I will seperate the spoiler tags for your different points though, just for spacial purposes.

About JFA Interactions-
Spoiler: JFA & AA Spoilers
Very true. The only comments I recall is a snide one from Fran at 2-2, and a sort of adoration of how mature Fran is compared to Maya, and how far she's gone considering that they're the same age in the same case, but I wouldn't argue that in any way demonstrates romantic feelings. However I would point out that at this point Fran is like "ZOMG I SHALL CRUSH PHENIX WRIGHT AND HIDE EVIDENCE ZO THIZ CAN HAVVEN.", so any sort of relationship isn't going to take place at this point of Fran's life. You have to realize that Edgeworth was pretty cold towards Phoenix during PW 1 due to his upbringing, the DL6 incident, and all that. I'd say that Fran is (or at least was) in even WORSE shape, considering that at least Edgeworth had Gregory as a father for the first few years. Fran has had nobody except Manfred and later on, Edgeworth. So she's pretty much crippled emotionally, and therefore hides this with her "tough girl" persona. She's a mess emotionally, basicially. So yeah, I doubt that ANY romantic feelings could develop between the two of them, at least at this point.

Very true, I can't imagine Fran having a stable relationship with pretty much ANYBODY (Except Miles, and I consider that a bro-sis sort of thing.), but I don't know anybody who would say that it was "love at first sight" in any sense of the word.

Like I just said in my mini-rant, I would say that there is pretty much no chance of any automatic relationship between the two of them, and I agree that Maya has always been like "WHEEEEE!!! I'LL BE FRIENDS WITH ALL THE LITTLE BIRDS AND TREES AND EVERYTHING! WHEEEE!!" (Yes, that is an extreme exaggeration.), however I would argue that at least this demonstrates that Maya, being Maya, at least wouldn't really have any complaints with being in a relationship with a toned-down Franziska, but that pretty much means nothing. So let's keep on going.



About T&T Interactions-
Spoiler: T&T
One thing you have to keep in mind is that other than JFA, in which the two very rarely converse to begin with, and we have RAWR!Fran (Yes, I do call JFA Fran RAWRFran sometimes. Don't ask me why.) in JFA on the other, so yeah, even at this point, chances are that there is no relationship between the two of them, although I think that now at least Fran actually cares for people other than herself and Miles, which is a HUGE step forwards as far as a possible relationship goes.

And once again we have a dreadful lack of interaction between both of them that really kills any canon relationship. How much time does Maya actually spend conversing with Fran? I can't remember a single piece of dialogue, considering that there was no chance to meet at the cave considering that Maya was chanelling Dahlia in the courtroom, and soon after the trial ends, we have Maya running off after Pearl. So there's no interaction, other than the way that Franziska can't speak to Maya normally (The exact same sort of thing thing happens with Pearl earlier in the game, I think mainly because of Pearl's innocence and naivete, with makes Franziska think of her lost childhood and her crippled emotional state, which is why she's stunned and can't converse with her properly.). So once again, I do not support any sort of canonical relationship between the two of them, and I think you've helped me demonstrate why. :gant:


Conclusion-

At any rate, I think that's about it. One thing that you have to keep in mind with me at least, is that I don't consider much of a relationship between the two canonical in the very least. All I can say is that I think that there is just a grey area after 3-5 where it IS possible that the two got together. You would argue that this is possible with pretty much any pairing devised EVER, and I'd concur. I ship the pairing not really because of canonical significance, or much evidence, I ship it because I think that not only is it cute, it would end up helping both characters as a whole to be in a relationship with eachother. That's it. Once again, you could say that same about every other pairing, and I would again concur, so maybe I'm not the best person to debate with you regarding this pairing.
Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)Topic%20Title
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I personally love them together because... I'm not really sure. They just seem so right together. But I want to know what the people of CR think of this pairing and why. I just thought that if I'm going to want them to be together forever, I might as well have a reason.
Edit: People's discussions have actually changed my mind a bit as far as Phoenix/Edgey goes. Not that I don't still imagine them together, but I don't think of them as a gay pairing anymore. As CantFaketheFunk said, two men can have a relationship like Phoenix/Edgeworth without neccesarily being in love. Intimate love wasn't really what I had in mind in the first place. Me, being a preteen, imagines love not as two people *ahem* acting intimate together, but as a very strong emotional bond between two people. The acting intimate is merely one of the many expressions of forementioned emtional bond.
Edit Again: I have decided that although Phoenix and Edgeworth are far more than friends, they are not a "gay" couple. They are attracted emotionally, and not necessarily physically. However, this does not change my opinion that Edgeworth is at least bisexual

P.S. For those of us who think PxE is the best thing since sliced bread, check this out.
From Phoenix Wright to Miles Edgeworth

Last edited by Clarissa Gavin on Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)Topic%20Title
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Because you can't beat it!

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I generally go with the hetero and/or canon pairings, and I'm already a big fan of Phoenix/Maya, as well as
Spoiler: T&T
Phoenix/Iris,

so Edgeworth can go find some other boyfriend as far as I'm concerned! Although I do get a kick out of how so much of the in-game dialogue can be taken out of context to pair the two of them up.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)Topic%20Title
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I generally go with the hetero and canon pairings.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)Topic%20Title
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Boredman wrote:
I generally go with the hetero and canon pairings.

I apoligize for being so internet illiterate, but what is a canon pairing? I've hear it a few times now, but I'm still not sure what it means. I looked up canon on dictionary.com, but it has something to do with the Catholic Church.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)Topic%20Title
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Because you can't beat it!

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"Canon" is what is generally accepted as fact according to the actual source material. For example, Ron DeLite + Desiree DeLite would be canon, while Ron DeLite + Lotta Hart would be non-canon.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)Topic%20Title
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FanGuy wrote:
"Canon" is what is generally accepted as fact according to the actual source material. For example, Ron DeLite + Desiree DeLite would be canon, while Ron DeLite + Lotta Hart would be non-canon.

Thanks! I appreciate someone finnally telling me!
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)Topic%20Title
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Love, learn, live.

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I don't hate them but I'm not fond of them.
They're such a cliched pairing! Rivals falling in love.....become friends and all that Jazz. I don't doubt Edgy is gay though.
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