Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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The reason...
Because Phoenix takes an active part, new hero's Apollo is unremarkable.
Little the description exists, and the character has not been established though Apollo is a fiery spirit.
We are not good to Apollo at the empathy above.
There is no something for which it emotionally appeals because it cannot do the empathy to Apollo even if Kristoph who is the master becomes a defendant or it is arrested.
To ward off the rebuttal of Apollo, Klavier lacks the upsurge of the trial.
It is trivial because there is no reply of lawyer and prosecutor's words.
Exhilaration one feels are lacked overall.
Moreover, there is a part where Takumi of the explanation of "Examine" and the evidence etc. is not writing sentences, and the part is very trivial.
Other various faults are discussed with 2CH.
http://game13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/han ... 203675701/
What did everybody think because they played an English version?
-----
in Japanese
日本では逆転裁判4の評判が悪いです。
その理由は、
成歩堂が活躍するため、新主人公の王泥喜が目立たない。
王泥喜は熱血ということだが、その描写がほとんどなくて、人格が確立されていない。
以上から、王泥喜に感情移入できない。
王泥喜に感情移入できないので、師匠である牙琉霧人が被告人になっても、逮捕されても、感情的に訴えるものがない。
牙琉響也は裁判で、王泥喜の反論を受け流したりして、裁判の盛り上がりに欠ける。
弁護士と検事の激しい言葉の応酬がないので、つまらない。
全体的に爽快感に欠ける。
また、「調べる」や証拠品の説明など、巧が文章を書いていない部分があり、その部分は非常につまらない。
他にも色々な欠点が2ちゃんねるで論議されています。
【DS色を】逆転裁判4大反省会11【だしすぎ】
http://game13.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/han ... 203675701/
みなさんは、英語版をプレイしてどう思いましたか。
日本在住の日本人。
I'm Japanese and I live in Japan. English is difficult for me.
I'm Japanese and I live in Japan. English is difficult for me.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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excluded. Hopefully GS5 will have a lot less Wright, as much I loathe to say. This was just setting up the characters for the things to come, I think.
Work in progress. Avatar by Wrestlemania, if my memory is right.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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In general, I got the idea, though, and I'd have to agree. I had more trouble warming up to a lot of the characters than I did in the Phoenix Wright games. In particular, I had trouble warming up to Klavier--though that may more so be my bias against rock music than an actual dislike of the character.
I'll always love you, Max.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
PLEASE SWIM WITH MEEEEEE!!
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Work in progress. Avatar by Wrestlemania, if my memory is right.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
True love is forever.
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I do think that he came off a bit weaker then Phoenix at his start, but GS1 was done without the knowledge that there would be a GS2 (or so I've heard) so they had to make sure to clean things up in that case. We know there will be a GS5 which means they have more time to develop the characters which I think will work better in the long run. Besides this one was focused around what happened to Phoenix, but GS1 was mostly focused around what happened to Edgeworth, so in that respect, they aren't that different. We really got to know more about Phoenix in the later games. I really liked having Phoenix in the game (...and I hope he's back in GS5 as a lawyer... *shrugs* I can't help what I want), but I do think he should play a Mia-like role in later games (he seems to start that in this game). He stays on the sideline and gives advice when necessary. Kristoph is awesome by the way. I thought many of the side characters were also great (particularly Vera for some reason... she's just so cute!). So my end opinion. I think they are off to a great start in the new arc. I really love the game.
Proud Supporter of Phoenix/Iris, Ron/Dessie, Klavier/Ema, and Apollo/Vera
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Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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There's just no excitement beyond the court room, and it's barely there too. For example, in case 2 trail day 2 when your cornering the new suspect (No Spoilers), it just seemed to fly by too quickly. "Your habit is THIS!", and they damn near give up!? The game is fun, the music is great and it makes the experience so much better but, I just can't really get into it as much as I did GS1 at this point. Maybe in GS5 I can actually start to care about Trucy and Apollo.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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As for Klavier, he rubbed me the wrong way, too. I never really liked him, but eh. In any case, I like how he's not he kind of prosecutor that jumps on your case at every possible chance you make to prove your defendant not guilty, but the way he jumped sides was kind of odd for me. o3o Maybe that's boring for some people? For me it wasn't, probably because it really did feel like the court was more for finding the truth rather than THIS PERSON'S DEFINITELY GUILTY AND I'LL DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO GET THEM GUILTY.
I'm believe I'm very biased about this game, though, since I personally found this game a lot more fun than the previous trilogy. Maybe it's because it's "new" and.. Goshdarnit, new is fun sometimes. XD
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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In terms of the characters involved, I liked them, though I thought Apollo was a little bit too much like Phoenix, and Trucy was like Maya...except more perceptive. But therein lies the problem.
This wasn't "Apollo Justice: Ace Atorney"; IMO, it was more like "Apollo and Friends". There was always someone there to lead the case along, someone there to put all the pieces together. Phoenix essentially solves the first case for you, Trucy always seems to have an answer when you need one, and Klavier is so helpful you'd almost think he should be a defense attorney. I agree there isn't as much of a dramatic clash of wits and words between Apollo and Klavier, something that the first three cases had in spades. (Klavier's awesome anyway, though)
In other words, Apollo still doesn't have an identity, and even the huge revelations about Apollo at the end were just kinda...eh. Anti-climactic, I guess. Actually, every case except the first was a huge letdown in terms of the way the plot was advanced. It seemed like all the guilty parties went down too quickly, and there wasn't that dramatic buildup of tension.
The biggest problem I have, though, is with the loose ends. From case 1 on, it didn't feel "complete", and even after the end of the game...there were so many small plot points that weren't addressed, so many small things that make the entire game just seem...incomplete, I guess. Especially the third and fourth cases. To me, AJ just doesn't have the same personality, the same coherence that the other three games did, despite working so very hard to tie all four cases together.
That's not to say I didn't like it, but...overall, I'd probably say it's either third or fourth down on my list.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Spoiler: End of the game
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Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Mia_Fey wrote:
Well to be fair, the other games were done without any knowledge that there would be more (I'm almost positive that this is true for the first one although I'm not certain about whether or not this was so for the second game mostly because JFA did leave loose ends that weren't cleared up until T&T). This game is done with the knowledge that there will be a GS5.
Yeah, but that's a bad reason to leave loose ends. "Buy the next game!" Well, they could drop "lead-in" hints that pave the way for the next game, but I'd still like a bit more solid resolution.
Spoiler: AA4
It would have brought a lot more closure if the smaller plot points were resolved right then and there, and quite frankly I'd chalk that up to the developers just getting a little lazy.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Writer Awakened wrote:
This wasn't "Apollo Justice: Ace Atorney"; IMO, it was more like "Apollo and Friends". There was always someone there to lead the case along, someone there to put all the pieces together. Phoenix essentially solves the first case for you, Trucy always seems to have an answer when you need one, and Klavier is so helpful you'd almost think he should be a defense attorney. I agree there isn't as much of a dramatic clash of wits and words between Apollo and Klavier, something that the first three cases had in spades. (Klavier's awesome anyway, though)
In all fairness, this was what it was like for Phoenix in the first game. 1-1 is the single easiest case in the entire series, so winning that isn't a big accomplishment. He wins 1-2 only because Maya channels Mia at the last minute and provides possibly the single biggest deus ex machina in any Phoenix Wright game. I can't remember much about 1-3, so no comment on that. If just one of the people who helped him in 1-4 hadn't helped, he would've lost (as he notes at the end), and he wins 1-5 because Edgeworth decided the truth was more important than winning and acts almost as helpful as Klavier does.Then again, I haven't completed 4-4 yet (have just started it) so I my opinion might change. One thing that did rub me the wrong way is that there's only four cases. They managed five in games 1 and 3 (game 2, which only had 4, is in my opinion the worst of the first three), so I'm a bit disappointed they settled for only four here.
I unfortunately can't make out much of the first post, so I can't really comment on it.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Lord Seth wrote:
In all fairness, this was what it was like for Phoenix in the first game. 1-1 is the single easiest case in the entire series, so winning that isn't a big accomplishment. He wins 1-2 only because Maya channels Mia at the last minute and provides possibly the single biggest deus ex machina in any Phoenix Wright game. I can't remember much about 1-3, so no comment on that. If just one of the people who helped him in 1-4 hadn't helped, he would've lost (as he notes at the end), and he wins 1-5 because Edgeworth decided the truth was more important than winning and acts almost as helpful as Klavier does.
Then again, I haven't completed 4-4 yet (have just started it) so I my opinion might change. One thing that did rub me the wrong way is that there's only four cases. They managed five in games 1 and 3 (game 2, which only had 4, is in my opinion the worst of the first three), so I'm a bit disappointed they settled for only four here.
I unfortunately can't make out much of the first post, so I can't really comment on it.
Then again, I haven't completed 4-4 yet (have just started it) so I my opinion might change. One thing that did rub me the wrong way is that there's only four cases. They managed five in games 1 and 3 (game 2, which only had 4, is in my opinion the worst of the first three), so I'm a bit disappointed they settled for only four here.
I unfortunately can't make out much of the first post, so I can't really comment on it.
Fair enough. Actually, the first game is also low on my list for that reason. XD. I dunno though, it just seemed a little bit more pronounced that everyone else helps out in AA4. Maybe because there were only a few certain "moments" of divine intervention in the first three, whereas there were entire stretches in AA4 where you're essentially being pushed along.
Spoiler: 4-1
4-3 was good in this regard, though, IMO.
Actually, JFA is my favorite game in the series just because I felt it did have the dramatic buildup that AA4 especially lacked.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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But, I did want to say that I have been following the 逆転裁判4大反省会 threads on 2ch ever since they were started. I agree with almost everything in them--several times it's been like the posters have been reading my mind. (Also, the character summaries are really funny. I especially like Kirihito and Daian's...)
Thank you for doing this, JapaneseGirl. When I saw people were curious about how the fans overseas were reacting, I wanted to say something, but I was way too nervous to post. I just wanted to thank everyone in that thread for making me feel like my feelings were shared by other people.
If you're curious as to how my brother likes it...he really hates it. I was surprised. I hated the way Phoenix/Naruhodo came across in the Japanese version, but my brother is a huge Phoenix fan, so I expected him to disagree with me. Instead, he hates him almost as much as I did. He agrees that the characters lack depth--we both like Apollo/Odoroki, though--and he feels like no one really likes one another in this game. Also, he thinks Gavin/Garyuu isn't a challenge as a prosecutor at all, and it annoys him that he never feels like he wins against him.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
操纵距离程度的能力
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Writer Awakened wrote:
Fair enough. Actually, the first game is also low on my list for that reason. XD. I dunno though, it just seemed a little bit more pronounced that everyone else helps out in AA4. Maybe because there were only a few certain "moments" of divine intervention in the first three, whereas there were entire stretches in AA4 where you're essentially being pushed along.
Spoiler: 4-1
I don't mean to offend you...but if I were you, I would have thought further about it. Why Phoenix was pushing you? What's his real purpose? Mia didn't push him in his first trail, so why did he do?Why he didn't just stand there and leave it all to Polly?...
I believe after you get through the entire game and take a good think, maybe you would see the reasons. The game was not made in that way just to annoy you, you know.
And for the Japanese information...well I guess it's something unilateral. I saw a lot of positive comment in Japanese as well as the negative one. I would say GS4 caused a big discussion and yes, many people don't like it, it's still good and successful. GS4 couldn't have earned the highest-level evaluation from the most authoritative game magazine in Japan because of nothing.
You can call me whatever you want:3
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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火曜日 wrote:
I don't mean to offend you...but if I were you, I would have thought further about it. Why Phoenix was pushing you? What's his real purpose? Mia didn't push him in his first trail, so why did he do?Why he didn't just stand there and leave it all to Polly?...
Because he's an melodramatic, cryptic jerk?
火曜日 wrote:
And for the Japanese information...well I guess it's something unilateral. I saw a lot of positive comment in Japanese as well as the negative one. I would say GS4 caused a big discussion and yes, many people don't like it, it's still good and successful. GS4 couldn't have earned the highest-level evaluation from the most authoritative game magazine in Japan because of nothing.
I didn't see many good reactions among the fans of the games. The impressions threads on 2ch were surprisingly negative even from the beginning, and only leveled out after the game had been out for a bit and more casual fans began playing. And even among fans of the game, it seemed, to me, like they only "liked" it. I haven't seen anyone passionately love it. "Oh, I liked it. I had fun playing it" as opposed to the people that disliked it really articulating why they thought it was flawed.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Thank you for all of you.
And I am poor at English. I'm sorry.
The impression of everybody looks like that of Japan.
Hatred for GS4 has deteriorated the atmosphere of 2CH.
They hate the GS4 staff who destroyed GS4.
Their quarrels are ugly. When I come Court Record forum, I am relieved.
日本在住の日本人。
I'm Japanese and I live in Japan. English is difficult for me.
I'm Japanese and I live in Japan. English is difficult for me.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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musouka wrote:
火曜日 wrote:
I don't mean to offend you...but if I were you, I would have thought further about it. Why Phoenix was pushing you? What's his real purpose? Mia didn't push him in his first trail, so why did he do?Why he didn't just stand there and leave it all to Polly?...
Because he's an melodramatic, cryptic jerk?
You are kidding, yes you are.
musouka wrote:
火曜日 wrote:
And for the Japanese information...well I guess it's something unilateral. I saw a lot of positive comment in Japanese as well as the negative one. I would say GS4 caused a big discussion and yes, many people don't like it, it's still good and successful. GS4 couldn't have earned the highest-level evaluation from the most authoritative game magazine in Japan because of nothing.
I didn't see many good reactions among the fans of the game. The impressions threads on 2ch were surprisingly negative even from the beginning, and only leveled out after the game had been out for a bit and more casual fans began playing. And even among fans of the game, it seemed, to me, like they only "liked" it. I haven't seen anyone passionately love it. "Oh, I liked it. I had fun playing it" as opposed to the people that disliked it really articulating why they thought it was flawed.
Well...yes, on 2ch you can see remarkable criticism and all that negative reactions, but why not try to see more by using search engines? I have to admit that there are a lot of people who don't like it, but I think I did see someone raised their objection and listed the reasons why they like the game. Anyway, I can't read Japanese and I can't say I got exactly what was on the web pages by using a translation software, or I just didn't find most of the negative comments, it happens. I just disagree with the opinion that the most of the fans don't like the game, that's all.(Wish I got the correct word, another using-translation-software example
)
You can call me whatever you want:3
Last edited by Komachi on Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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JapaneseGIRL wrote:
The impression of everybody looks like that of Japan.
Hatred for GS4 has deteriorated the atmosphere of 2CH.
They hate the GS4 staff who destroyed GS4.
Their quarrels are ugly. When I come Court Record forum, I am relieved.
Hatred for GS4 has deteriorated the atmosphere of 2CH.
They hate the GS4 staff who destroyed GS4.
Their quarrels are ugly. When I come Court Record forum, I am relieved.
:D
2CH is fairly much like 4chan (only in Japanese, durr), though, so people will find it easier to flame and to harshly criticize there. I can imagine that it would be saddening, but, you know, it doesn't represent everyone.
I have yet to play the game, so I can't give you a honest opinion about it, but I'm quite sure it won't be that bad.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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The danger is doing a spinoff series based on a game is that many fans will have certain expectations of the system. Phoenix, we all know, is a bit long in the tooth and the developers do a new direction. Fine, that's all good and dandy but there is a big risk. In doing a new direction and screwing up, you'll risk losing quite a bit of the reaction to this game. I should actually break it down from the technical down to the intense storyline that's here.
Technically, the game is a step up. The game now incorporates video (a bit primative but it does the job rather well) which is a great step up from the previous sprite based videos we see. In a flash cartridge, that is really astonishing. Even better is that the sprites and background seems to be a bit more higher in the quality as compared to the previous generation. So that's a great big plus for me here.
As with new games, we have the new characters and the old from the last series. Phoenix returns as does a few others. A new cast is introduced with Apollo being at the helm and Trucy taking over the cheerleading/bumbling sidekick from *whoever happened to be not in jail at that time*. Fine, that's sort of good as at least you have a connection from the previous games in there.
FInally, there's the story itself. There are the usual cases and twists that will keep you guessing. And that's okay I guess. After all, this is Ace Attorney after all. It does have the recognition that it's a step up. But not so fast in saying 'Then why shouldn't it be great? It fulfils everything that a fan wants'...
Previous Phoenix Wright games had a sense of flair, conviction and driving passion for the truth. And with good reason. The first game was all about Phoenix and his origins. It also establishes his characteristics in who he was interacting with and the story flowed like a smooth river then. Justice for All took that sense to a new level with the new question of 'Which would you choose? Justice or the result?' Finally the final one takes all the ideas from the first and second and makes a stunning masterpiece out of it. It's almost like the Allegro Pastorale in each of Vivaldi's Four Seasons movements in one game. The fourth game seems to be the best ideas to the fore. But don't, however, be fooled in this game. There are one or two little issues. After taking the game and playing it to the finish twice, I literally had no will to play it again as compared to the previous games as it was just so....boring. Every single character's presence in the story were slightly rubbish in being rushed and unpolished, the pacing of the story must have been in line with the pacemaker of the developers which was very erratic from absolutely slow to jogging pace a lot of the time, the cases were just rehashes of the previous games but with different outcomes and different evidence and the Minuki system which was suppose to be the centre piece was practically useless if you were very observant enough to notice the 'nervous habits' of the witnesses, long before you noticed it on the Minuki system.
You really can't say that this is a good game. More worryingly, I would actually say that it's borderline okay, occasionally slipping into the bad region. You see, if it is really a new series and not a spinoff of the previous games, you really want it to feel like it's new and not rehashed from the previous games. And somehow, it doesn't. Technically, it's brilliant and gives what we've been asking from the previous games. But I don't like the inside of it and the direction of it. That's why I would play this, know the storyline and wait for the next game. The game is just a big testing ground which only became a big battlefield of mudslinging and cries of outrage on how horribly wrong it goes. The previous games is what matters the most for me. The heart and soul for the series.
I know that it's a trying start but if you are going to release a spinoff, do it right.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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The rest of the game was alright. It didn't feel like the other games... I dunno why. It just felt... weird. Klavier was too... nonchalant? He seemed to never care about any case until you accused Daryan and Kristoph. Even then he didn't seem to care all that much. Trucy was too... normal. I really expected her to be a lot more like Maya but she was pretty much a normal 15 year old girl... except that she's a magician. Phoenix's relationship with Trucy was pretty adorable, but I didn't like him suggesting that she called him Daddy... I mean he'd only known her for 2 weeks. As much as it felt different, that difference didn't make it BAD... until the flashback.
With all this said I do agree with the above post about the character development being a little slapdash, making the game feel a lot more boring. And the fact that there wasn't a single twist that made me think "holy shit that's awesome"... The game appeared to focus more on the murder than the twists..
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Spoiler: 4-4
The other super-predictable plot twist, of course, was...
Spoiler: 4-3 and 4-4
The plot holes mentioned above weren't as big a deal for me.
Spoiler: 4-3
I think I have to agree, though, about Apollo's lack of character. Nick's sarcasm always gave the cases a little flavor, but Apollo seems to have only one reaction to everything: bewildered. I do buy what happened to Nick, even in the flashbacks - he's always been cocky, and being set up to take a fall might well make him pretty bitter. I can certainly see him pulling any number of dirty tricks to reveal the truth.
I enjoyed AJ quite a bit - the first case was excellent, the second case had a cleverly intertwining set of plot threads, the third had some really innovative evidence, and the fourth had a stunning victory for common sense. But this might be the first PW game where the last case is the weakest of the lot - even though, by the standards of most adventure games, the final case is head and shoulders above just about anything else on the market.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Apollo does get a whole lot of help (especially from Klavier) but the way I see it, they're setting him up as starting lower than Phoenix did so that his growth to Super Lawyer is all the more apparent. I love his line at the end of the game where he admits that he's not up to the same level as his peers: he's admitting he has a long way to go. GS4 is the starting point, not the conclusion, and even if GS4 isn't as grand as the games that came before it, I'm really looking forward to seeing if the writers really are viewing the trilogy as a whole, and not on a game by game basis, like last time. If all the holes and mysteries from GS4 are filled and tied together by GS6, I think the whole picture will overcome some of the individual failings.
Phoenix's trilogy had the problem of not enough foresight. Some of the stuff that happened in T&T felt contradictory because we'd never heard of it before: like Phoenix already knowing what it's like to be on trial for murder. Or the fact that Morgan and Pearl weren't invented until JFA, so they're mysteriously absent when Maya is put on trial for Mia's murder - things that are excuseable, but really could have been fit together better. GS4 maybe suffers from too much foresight: leaving holes that can be filled later, even if at the moment they just look like holes.
Of course, if GS5 comes out and the prosecutor is still mostly unphasable and Apollo bumbles everything and the final villain's motive is wishy-washy and none of the holes are filled and Apollo's backstory isn't mentioned and Phoenix says flat out "Fuck those Feys" then I'll eat my words like whoa. But I really am looking at AJ in the most positive way possible: as an introduction.
SOMETHING WITTY HERE
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Back then, I wondered if they were going to pull a DMC2-style retcon, and this only provides me with more evidence to support that theory. If there's an enormous fan backlash, it might explain why it's taking so long for us to get news about GS5; they could be scrapping the GS4 plotline to go back to something a little more familiar.
With that said, there do seem to be enough people who like it to prevent that from happening- as I said, there are lots of J-art sites, and... well, if it's basically the Japanese version of 4chan, it's Japan's version of the Internet Hate Machine; of course they're going to hate it. Personally, I love the GS4 cast (especially Trucy good lord
) and can't wait to see them fleshed out more, and I'd like to see Apollo develop into a great attorney on his own instead of relying on the guidance of Phoenix, Klavier, and Trucy all the time. Besides, I've heard that a lot of people don't like JFA as much as the other two games in the original trilogy. Maybe it's kind of like a reverse Star Trek thing, huh? ONLY THE ODD NUMBERED GAMES RULE. 
(Besides, I want to know if Wocky made it. : [ I almost bawwwwed when I got to the end of that case.)
Re:
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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Random Prophet wrote:
Back then, I wondered if they were going to pull a DMC2-style retcon, and this only provides me with more evidence to support that theory.
Technically DMC2 was never officially retconned, was it? There are a ton of things about 4 that tie it to 2. They just shuffled it to the end of the timeline so that we would forget about it XD;;;
Point being, I don't think Capcom would ever go so far as to simply ret-con GS4. Though I am worried that in their haste to do damage control they'll end up changing the things about GS4 that I liked.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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And yeah, I agree, since there is a sizable fanbase I doubt it would be scrapped completely. Although, considering how long it's taking us to get info about GS5, I'd say they're taking their time with it.Only time will tell, I guess!
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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I don't think Capcom will retcon the game either, but I do think GS5 is going to be markedly different in comparison to this one. If you had asked me a few months ago what the chances of Maya and Edgeworth and Co showing up in the next game would have been, I would have said 100% nill. Now, due to damage control, I'm not so sure, and I'm not sure how it makes me feel either...
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Quote:
Thank you for doing this, JapaneseGirl. When I saw people were curious about how the fans overseas were reacting, I wanted to say something, but I was way too nervous to post. I just wanted to thank everyone in that thread for making me feel like my feelings were shared by other people.
Yes, a lot of people do share your opinions... in Japan. When you look at the reaction from fans over here... it's a different story. From the CR poll, and the criticial reaction it's seems we generally like Apollo. (Of course, there ARE people who don't, and thats totally fine ^_^) Now, lets look at this quote.
Quote:
I don't think Capcom will retcon the game either, but I do think GS5 is going to be markedly different in comparison to this one. If you had asked me a few months ago what the chances of Maya and Edgeworth and Co showing up in the next game would have been, I would have said 100% nill. Now, due to damage control, I'm not so sure, and I'm not sure how it makes me feel either...
Now, I don't know about you, but I have no idea where has this assumption come from that only the Japanese Fan response matters to the developers. If anything, surely the amount of positive response from the western world would have some sort of input too? Yes, this series started in Japan; but now it's a worldwide series with fans all over the world. Why would the whole direction that the developers were working towards change a lot if people generally like it?
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
キラッ☆
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It only loses because it was epic, but not nearly as Epic as 3-5, and that the Mason system doesn't make much sense at all. (It's like some time-traveling machine)
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
俺の黄金の魔女
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Gerkuman wrote:
Yes, a lot of people do share your opinions... in Japan.
Uh, yeah, That was my entire point. I don't like raining on people's parades, believe it or not, so I try to avoid arguing about the game on these forums for the most part. But, I'm sort of the opposite of JapaneseGirl. Sometimes I get frustrated. I think everyone has the right to love and enjoy any game they want, regardless of my opinion. Still, it's nice to be able to go to a place and see people upset about what made me upset and venting about what I like to vent about.
Gerkuman wrote:
Now, I don't know about you, but I have no idea where has this assumption come from that only the Japanese Fan response matters to the developers. If anything, surely the amount of positive response from the western world would have some sort of input too? Yes, this series started in Japan; but now it's a worldwide series with fans all over the world. Why would the whole direction that the developers were working towards change a lot if people generally like it?
They're still making and targetting it towards Japanese audiences. We're icing on the cake, not the cake itself. I don't see much in GS4 that was targetted towards international players--personally, I think it was probably one of the more difficult ones to localize. And, even if fans here don't dislike the game with the vehemence of the Japanese audience, they don't seem to adore it with any sort of vehemence either.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
Novice bimbo
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musouka wrote:
The problem with this attitude is, like I said, if you don't make the gameplay experience satistfying, then there's no guarentee that you'll get three games to fleshen everything out to your liking. If you don't make Kristoph feel like a challenge or even make his motivations make sense, if you don't give the "player avatar" his chance to shine, if you can't even sell me on these characters feeling strongly about one another one way or the other...
I don't think Capcom will retcon the game either, but I do think GS5 is going to be markedly different in comparison to this one. If you had asked me a few months ago what the chances of Maya and Edgeworth and Co showing up in the next game would have been, I would have said 100% nill. Now, due to damage control, I'm not so sure, and I'm not sure how it makes me feel either...
I don't think Capcom will retcon the game either, but I do think GS5 is going to be markedly different in comparison to this one. If you had asked me a few months ago what the chances of Maya and Edgeworth and Co showing up in the next game would have been, I would have said 100% nill. Now, due to damage control, I'm not so sure, and I'm not sure how it makes me feel either...
The japanese fan outcry is what caused Ken and Ryu to be put back in Street Fighter III, so your hunch will probably be correct I'm afraid.
Capcom always gives into their fans.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Mia_Fey wrote:
What I don't understand about all this apparent hate is that there seems to be a lot of GS4 fan art out there on Japanese sites. I'm not doubting anyone here, but I don't fully get why there is so much fan art being produced if the game and its characters are so hated.
No matter how disliked something is in general, it will always have fans. Those fans might very well produce fanart. That doesn't mean the general opinion isn't negative. For example, if I liked the game and everyone else hated it, I'd probably still write fanfiction for it--but just because you can find my fifty fanfics for the game doesn't mean that the fandom in general loves it.
It's true that 2ch skews negative, but not usually this negative. Let me put it this way. I'm sure there are people out there that enjoyed the game, but I see very few people that passionately love it. So you get a situation where the people that did like it are like "yeah, I liked it [shrug]" and the people that dislike it absolutely can't stand it.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Anyone kind enough to tell me what does the word "retcon" mean? Can't find it in any dictionary.TAT
You can call me whatever you want:3
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Apollo Justice: The Phoenix Wright story
Also, I was smarter then Apollo, I'd say that Phoenix and I figure things out on average at around the same time on my first play though, I'd like to say that this is simply because I have 3 AA games under my belt, however there was so much that was obvious when Apollo was simply dumbfounded and waited for Klavier to save him. Sure, he's a rookie, but his lack of logical skills made me wonder how he got through law school.
On the subject of Klavier, I liked every other prosecutor, or at least their character (and yes, this includes Von Karma
) but he just annoyed me, I'm with Ema on this (or at least what she says, I'm sure people will argue that she's hiding romantic feelings or whatever...), his "nice guy" attitude always came across as phony to me and at the very least not as nice as the other characters we saying he was and quite in contrast to how he acted when certain people were accused of being the real criminal. Not to mention the nickname “Herr Forehead” never came across as endearing to me.Spoiler: 4-4, until end
Despite all this I really enjoyed the game, it would only rank number four or three in my rankings of these games, and I know Capcom can do better, but I still like the game!
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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I loved Apollo Justice.
Yes, that's right. I know it's not the perfect game. It has it's faults, and it leads you by the hand a bit too much. Oh well. The Ace Attorney games have never been about gameplay for me. I just liked seeing the mysteries unravel, not to mention the character interaction. On those fronts, I felt that it delivered and delivered hard. Even though there seem to be a lot of complaints about the last case, I still thought that was pretty awesome too, particularly because I didn't think of it as a standalone case, but the wrapping up of the mysteries the game introduced. Also, much as I hate to say it, I'm a sucker for breaking the fourth wall, and they heavily imply that the player is one of the jurists (Or at least they do before it's revealed that you're controlling Lamiroir, which was something else that caught me off-guard. Pretty sweet move, Capcom). Also, I suppose I was ecstatic that they at least gave Phoenix a proper send-off as an attorney by letting you play his final case.
So if this the introduction games are always the weakest, I'm quite eager to see where the Apollo Justice saga is going. There, I said it.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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Spoiler:
"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads." -Doc
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
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火曜日 wrote:
*raise a quivering hand*
Anyone kind enough to tell me what does the word "retcon" mean? Can't find it in any dictionary.TAT
Anyone kind enough to tell me what does the word "retcon" mean? Can't find it in any dictionary.TAT
8Dd
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
Weeeeeee!!!!!
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LordQuadros wrote:
Alright, I know this will probably outcast me somewhat, but here goes:
I loved Apollo Justice.
Yes, that's right. I know it's not the perfect game. It has it's faults, and it leads you by the hand a bit too much. Oh well. The Ace Attorney games have never been about gameplay for me. I just liked seeing the mysteries unravel, not to mention the character interaction. On those fronts, I felt that it delivered and delivered hard. Even though there seem to be a lot of complaints about the last case, I still thought that was pretty awesome too, particularly because I didn't think of it as a standalone case, but the wrapping up of the mysteries the game introduced. Also, much as I hate to say it, I'm a sucker for breaking the fourth wall, and they heavily imply that the player is one of the jurists (Or at least they do before it's revealed that you're controlling Lamiroir, which was something else that caught me off-guard. Pretty sweet move, Capcom). Also, I suppose I was ecstatic that they at least gave Phoenix a proper send-off as an attorney by letting you play his final case.
So if this the introduction games are always the weakest, I'm quite eager to see where the Apollo Justice saga is going. There, I said it.
I loved Apollo Justice.
Yes, that's right. I know it's not the perfect game. It has it's faults, and it leads you by the hand a bit too much. Oh well. The Ace Attorney games have never been about gameplay for me. I just liked seeing the mysteries unravel, not to mention the character interaction. On those fronts, I felt that it delivered and delivered hard. Even though there seem to be a lot of complaints about the last case, I still thought that was pretty awesome too, particularly because I didn't think of it as a standalone case, but the wrapping up of the mysteries the game introduced. Also, much as I hate to say it, I'm a sucker for breaking the fourth wall, and they heavily imply that the player is one of the jurists (Or at least they do before it's revealed that you're controlling Lamiroir, which was something else that caught me off-guard. Pretty sweet move, Capcom). Also, I suppose I was ecstatic that they at least gave Phoenix a proper send-off as an attorney by letting you play his final case.
So if this the introduction games are always the weakest, I'm quite eager to see where the Apollo Justice saga is going. There, I said it.
True. The first game will always be a big problem, especially so when you have a spinoff series. There were some cases where I was enjoying Apollo Justice but taking another step back made me see that there were a lot of serious flaws and dampened my spirits on this game.
I'm a bit worried when you say that the Ace Attorney games have never been about gameplay. I usually judge games by their gameplay and not anything else. Even if I played the game previously. Why would you pick up a game anyway if the gameplay sucked?
Interaction was okay but I do feel that Apollo is pretty hollow. And I do agree with your mention that this one leads you by the hand too much. But that really kills it for me. If you babysit someone too much for a game, it spoils it too much.
I respect your views and everyone else who enjoyed the game.But there is a line which I draw and that's how I feel. I don't mind the occasional banter about games but there is a line where good cannot mix with crap almost.
Re: Please hear your impression. *spoiler*
King of Braves
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Bruce Goldberg wrote:
I'm a bit worried when you say that the Ace Attorney games have never been about gameplay. I usually judge games by their gameplay and not anything else. Even if I played the game previously. Why would you pick up a game anyway if the gameplay sucked?
For me, at least, they've never been about gameplay. I always sort of treated them more as visual novels like Kanon or Air, but with less player interaction (In the respect that whatever you do doesn't really change the final outcome). I basically just play them to read through the story, since I knew from the first game that my decisions in-game wouldn't have too much impact overall.
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