opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:04 pm

major_pw_fan

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I am just wondering what people think of :chinami:

i agree she is without a doubt very very evil more evil than :karma:

and

Also thought i belive if she wasnt neglected and treated so badly by her father wouldnt have turned out to be a cold blooded killer and may have turned out like Iris i mean throught her life she killed 3 people (Diego, Valire, and Doug) and terry commited suicide because of her. and she also tried to kill phoneix
But gotta admit she is a hell of a evil villian

i may have forgotten if she killed more if so feel free to add

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OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:17 pm

Mia_Fey

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There are a bunch of threads on Dahlia and her motivations. If you flip through the first few pages of this part of the forum, you should run across them.

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:46 pm

TheSteelSamurai

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Dahlia's evil couldn't possibly covered by just one thread. This chick needs a SWAT team of them.>_< Someone needs to get the Steel Samurai to kick her butt!

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:49 am

Wrighteous Fury

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Dahlia was neglected :chinami:

, Iris and her state it themselves. Her father was a freaky jewel merchant.

Oh, but then she sold her soul to the devil (aka :karma:

satan) and became evil.

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:11 am

TheSteelSamurai

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I don't buy that she was simply neglected, since there were plenty of options for her to be happy. She was the one who suggested abandoning her twin sister. She was the one who then used and killed her step-sister and the guy who loved her-Terry Fawles. Even when she was reunited with her sister, her only interest was in using her, and she was even willing to kill the man her sister loved to get what she wanted. I truly believe she was evil from the inside out from the very beginning.

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:26 am

NinjaMonkey

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TSS, since Diego = Godot, Diego can't have been killed by her. :welly:

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:30 am

TheSteelSamurai

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>_> Um, I didn't even mention Godot...And she did still poison him, leaving him practically dead and keeping him in a coma for years, which also left him blind and turned his hair white.

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:18 am

NinjaMonkey

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Sorry, I meant to quote major_pw_fan instead. :headbang:

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:06 am

babyjosef17

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I guess of both children, Iris was the most neglected, why her father left her in a shrine !! :Bikini:

The sisters are just alter ego's of each other, one good. One PURE EVIL :chinami:

and I've always knew that the devil will be pretty :that-b-word:

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:40 am

Franzise Deauxnim

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Iris wasn't neglected. Bikini gave her a very loving upbringing. Dahlia didn't get that. Iris states this very clearly right before Maya takes the stand in 3-5.

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:25 pm

Tamagon

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Dahlia being neglected isn't really a reason to become evil considering that she still had her sister and Valerie, and could of found love in them. Besides Maya's mother ran away, and was living alone her whole life.

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:15 pm

Mia_Fey

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Tamagon wrote:

Dahlia being neglected isn't really a reason to become evil considering that she still had her sister and Valerie, and could of found love in them. Besides Maya's mother ran away, and was living alone her whole life.

Does her upbringing excuse Dahlia's actions? No, of course not, but it isn't that simple. Remember that for a while Dahlia and Iris were separated, so during that time Dahlia wouldn't have had her sister. She had a father who clearly didn't give a crap, a step-mother that we never hear about but apparently had no issue with her new husband giving away Iris to a stranger, and a step-sister who's own feelings toward Dahlia are unclear (although she didn't seem concerned about Dahlia's jumping off a bridge into a dangerous river, so read into that as you wish). Hard to find love in people who don't return the feeling. Maya's mother ran away, but she had Mia who she was clearly close to as well as Pearl. Morgan was also around to take care of her (And I realize that Morgan secretly hated Maya, but the point is that she did so secretly. Maya seems to have cared about Morgan a great deal and was very hurt by what she had done, so I don't think its too far a jump to believe that Morgan at least acted the role of the loving aunt). It's also implied in the game that Maya's extended family lives in the village, so she would have had them as well. Maya also later has Phoenix who takes up a big brother role in her life, while all Dahlia ever really had was Iris who she lost for a time.

It's easy to say that Dahlia should have just made friends, but it isn't that simple. Children need to be carefully socialized so that they can interact in the world properly, but Dahlia and Iris were brought up in Kurain which is certainly a distance from the nearest playground. If Pearl and Maya are any example, then Dahlia and Iris probably didn't attend school which is a big way that many children learn how to make friends. Recall, how sheltered Pearl was and how she needs to be introduced to everything, but in Pearl's case she had Phoenix and Maya to help her through all of that. Considering what we know about Dahlia's father, I don't see him standing by her side to help her through adjusting to such a sudden and abrupt change in her life. So, just telling a child who has never had any experience in doing so to go make friends is not useful. Again, I'm not excusing her, but I don't think the question is so simply answered.

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:43 am

TheSteelSamurai

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I don't think having a father who just doesn't care is enough to make a person as evil and twisted as she was. She tells us herself that she suggested he leave Iris at the shrine. You can choose to believe she was lying, but that wouldn't really make sense. We don't know anything at all about her step-mother, but one would think she could have gotten along with her step-sister Valerie. Their relationship couldn't have been that bad if Valerie was willing to help Dahlia con her father, then help her get a whole new identity. There was also Terry, who clearly loved her a great deal. And after she was reunited with Iris, she could have tried to get close to her. She dated Doug, and there was yet another oppurtunity. Instead, she opted to just use and hurt these people, with no care at all what happened to them. I think she was twisted and evil from the very beginning.

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:48 am

Franzise Deauxnim

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You think somebody just being "born evil" and being able to convince her father to dump off her sister at eight years old makes perfect sense, but the fact that she might lie about that doesn't? :yuusaku:

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:57 am

Mia_Fey

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Well, you're welcome to believe anything you like, TheSteelSamurai. I'm not planning on debating with you as I'm not particularly fond of your attitude in that area. The only thing I can say about attachments later in life is that if you never really learned how to create healthy attachments when young to new people, you're going to have a difficult time doing so later in life. There is no doubt that Dahlia was twisted by the time we see her in the game. The question is how did she get to that point? As for the whole, Dahlia told her father to leave Iris behind, I can only point out that Dahlia is not a trustworthy character. She is never going to be willing to reveal what she would consider a weakness (reliance and faith in others) to Phoenix, particularly when she mocks him for exactly those traits with her next breath. I've ranted more on that topic in other threads though, so I won't here. As I said, I don't care what you believe and I'm not debating. The nature vs. nurture debate is not something we're likely to solve here. If you believe she was born bad, then that is your right.

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:04 am

TheSteelSamurai

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If you don't plan on debating, then why show up and address me at all. This thread is for the discussion of whether or not Dhalia is evil or neglected, which means there will be debating. By coming in and commenting rather unpolitely on what I've said with your own thoughts, you are starting a debate.

There is little to no evidence to support that Dahlia was just a tragic, neglected child who ended up turning to a life of crime. Up until the end and beyond, she shows no remorse at all for her actions. Her father may not have been kind to her, but there's nothing to show he was outright cruel either. And she had plenty of people who tried to be kind to her, and all she did was use and abuse them like they were nothing. The only anger she shows at all is directed towards those who got her sent to prison, as well as Maya. Iris may make it seem like her sister was just a victim, but that's because that is the kind of person she is, which is why she's so easily taken advantage of. I think it's more that she wanted to believe her sister was just a victim and kept hoping she would change, but as we see, that is not the case. Too many people tried to be nice to her, but she never hesitated to stab them in the back or use them for personal gain. She stooped to murder with ease to cover her own tracks and get revenge.

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:15 am

Mia_Fey

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I apologize if I came off rude. I certainly didn't intend that. I simply wished to add another viewpoint and add to the discussion. I disagree with your assessment, but I really don't wish to debate with you on this considering how nasty the last debate got. I've mentioned my viewpoint on this in a bunch of places anyway. How about we agree to disagree so that we can keep things civil here? Someone else can take this up if they wish.

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Last edited by Mia_Fey on Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:16 am

Franzise Deauxnim

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I'm pretty sure people can post their thoughts and opinions on something if they please without being obligated to get into a 50-post "debate" with you, SteelSamurai.

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:21 am

TheSteelSamurai

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You know, I'm getting really sick of you two ganging up on me and trying to start trouble. Both of you already stated your thoughts on the topic, yet despite your claims of not wanting to get into a debate or start trouble, you opted to bring up the situation in the other thread in an offensive manner, as well as address and put down my own thoughts. If you really had no interest in starting trouble, you would not have done this. The point of threads like this is essentially to debate, so stop harassing me for doing so. People are allowed to disagree and challenge eachother, but they are NOT allowed to be rude. The two of you might do well to remember that.

Getting back ON-TOPIC:

There is little to no evidence to support that Dahlia was just a tragic, neglected child who ended up turning to a life of crime. Up until the end and beyond, she shows no remorse at all for her actions. Her father may not have been kind to her, but there's nothing to show he was outright cruel either. And she had plenty of people who tried to be kind to her, and all she did was use and abuse them like they were nothing. The only anger she shows at all is directed towards those who got her sent to prison, as well as Maya. Iris may make it seem like her sister was just a victim, but that's because that is the kind of person she is, which is why she's so easily taken advantage of. I think it's more that she wanted to believe her sister was just a victim and kept hoping she would change, but as we see, that is not the case. Too many people tried to be nice to her, but she never hesitated to stab them in the back or use them for personal gain. She stooped to murder with ease to cover her own tracks and get revenge.

"You just wish you could talk in Webdings."

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:37 am

Xero Wright

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TheSteelSamurai wrote:

You know, I'm getting really sick of you two ganging up on me and trying to start trouble. Both of you already stated your thoughts on the topic, yet despite your claims of not wanting to get into a debate or start trouble, you opted to bring up the situation in the other thread in an offensive manner, as well as address and put down my own thoughts. If you really had no interest in starting trouble, you would not have done this. The point of threads like this is essentially to debate, so stop harassing me for doing so. People are allowed to disagree and challenge eachother, but they are NOT allowed to be rude. The two of you might do well to remember that.

And you might do well to be kind to your fellow forumers. I don't think you had much of a reason to be an ass to Mia, and I think you should apologize for being an utter asshole to her. She was posting her opinion, you were blasting her, she said she didn't mean to be rude and you blasted her again.

The same goes for you attacking Franzise for almost no reason. She wasn't being mean to you.

Jerk.

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:49 am

Tamagon

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TheSteelSamurai wrote:

You know, I'm getting really sick of you two ganging up on me and trying to start trouble. Both of you already stated your thoughts on the topic, yet despite your claims of not wanting to get into a debate or start trouble, you opted to bring up the situation in the other thread in an offensive manner, as well as address and put down my own thoughts. If you really had no interest in starting trouble, you would not have done this. The point of threads like this is essentially to debate, so stop harassing me for doing so. People are allowed to disagree and challenge eachother, but they are NOT allowed to be rude. The two of you might do well to remember that.

Getting back ON-TOPIC:

There is little to no evidence to support that Dahlia was just a tragic, neglected child who ended up turning to a life of crime. Up until the end and beyond, she shows no remorse at all for her actions. Her father may not have been kind to her, but there's nothing to show he was outright cruel either. And she had plenty of people who tried to be kind to her, and all she did was use and abuse them like they were nothing. The only anger she shows at all is directed towards those who got her sent to prison, as well as Maya. Iris may make it seem like her sister was just a victim, but that's because that is the kind of person she is, which is why she's so easily taken advantage of. I think it's more that she wanted to believe her sister was just a victim and kept hoping she would change, but as we see, that is not the case. Too many people tried to be nice to her, but she never hesitated to stab them in the back or use them for personal gain. She stooped to murder with ease to cover her own tracks and get revenge.

But Mia and the guy/girl/potato with the Iris avatar weren't being rude, yeah they kinda were ganging up on you to an extent, but that's part of a debate last time I checked.

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:52 am

babyjosef17

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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:

Iris wasn't neglected. Bikini gave her a very loving upbringing. Dahlia didn't get that. Iris states this very clearly right before Maya takes the stand in 3-5.

What I meant was Neglected by their "Father". Iris was most neglected by his "Father" because he just trew her away in a temple. He wanted to have one mouth less to feed. "that Bastard"

Which luckily for Iris, it turned out for the best for her. She then had Sister Bikini who cared for her.

Dahlia on the other hand, was left to live with her "father" whose jewels is more important to him than the God Given jewels that he has.

Tough I still do not beleive this was the reason dahlia was evil. She did not turn evil. She is evil from the very beginning. :chinami:

hehe.

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:53 am

TheSteelSamurai

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You three need to stop. This is the second topic that the three of you have harassed me in, and if it continues, I will report it to the admin. It doesn't matter if you keep trying to make it seem like I'm the bad guy, because that is not the case. I have a right to have a different opinion from you. It's not a crime. Yet every time I do, I get harassed by one of you three. It's extremely childish and needs to stop. Threads like these are created for voicing opinions and challenging others' opinions in friendly debates. All I did was come in here and post my thoughts on Dahlia. Mia_Fey comes in here and claims she does not want to debate with me, insulting me in the process, then goes on to address my thoughts and disagree with all of them. That is what instigates a debate. If you didn't want to debate, why address me at all, if not to start trouble? And then you get your friends to come in and back you up. Just quit it. I'm allowed to disagree.

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:57 am

Xero Wright

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TheSteelSamurai wrote:

You three need to stop. This is the second topic that the three of you have harassed me in, and if it continues, I will report it to the admin.

Too late - I'm already reporting you to the admin for harassing my friends - they did absolutely nothing to you.

Have fun~

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:01 am

TheSteelSamurai

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S.T.O.P

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:04 am

Franzise Deauxnim

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Say what you want about me (I really don't give a shit what you think of me), but Mia has been a hundred kinds of polite and far more respectful to you than I think is needed.

Back to the topic:

Quote:

There is little to no evidence to support that Dahlia was just a tragic, neglected child who ended up turning to a life of crime.

There is absolutely no evidence to support that Dahlia was just born evil, but if that's what you want to think, go ahead.

Quote:

Her father may not have been kind to her, but there's nothing to show he was outright cruel either.

Whether you want to believe Dahlia's father abandoned Iris because Dahlia talked him into it or he chose to himself, what kind of scumbag dumps his daughter off in the mountains, especially when he was more than wealthy enough to support her?

Quote:

I think it's more that she (Iris) wanted to believe her sister was just a victim and kept hoping she would change, but as we see, that is not the case.

If Dahlia was born evil as you keep saying, don't you think Iris would have noticed? How could Dahlia be a "victim" if she was born that way? You're either contradicting your entire argument or saying Iris is the biggest idiot in the entire AA series.

I'm not posting this for a debate, I'm posting it as something for you to think about.

Finally,

Quote:

If you don't plan on debating, then why show up and address me at all.

Get the hell off your high horse. These are not your forums and you are not special. Not once has Mia or I, or anyone else, told you you cannot post your thoughts, but that's what you're saying to us. People have the right to say whatever they want here, and the only one who seems to have a problem with that is you. That goes far beyond simply being "rude."

Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:18 am

TheSteelSamurai

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You guys already posted your thoughts. And you both came here and specifically addressed me, my thoughts, and an unrelated incident in another thread. You guys need to stop it.

There is a mountain of evidence to support her being evil from the beginning. Also, no one is saying her father wasn't horrible for abandoning Iris, but we're not debating whether or not he's evil or not. And I already said that Iris DID know her sister was evil, but was a sweet and sensitive girl who wanted desperately to believe otherwise. She was in denial. It even says somewhere-here or in the game,-that her personality allows for her to easily be fooled and taken advantage of.

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Re: opinions of Dahlia evil or just neglected *major spoilers*

Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:22 am

Croik

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This thread has really become heated to the point where I don't think it can be continued. CR encourages debate on the games but the kinds of personal attacks going on in here are not tolerated. I'd appreaciate it if ALL of you involved in this thread could take a step back, breathe, and regain perspective. There is no need for sarcasm or accusations of ANY kind.

And Xero... though I see you reported this thread, when YOUR post ends with "Jerk" that does little to convince me you're not guilty of immaturity yourself. :gregory:

So please, just let it go and let's not continue any bad blood into other threads.