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3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
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This is using the real-world legal system, of course, but I don't see how any differences from the Ace Attorney system would apply. With my limited understanding of the legal system, I can deduce that: Ron deLite cannot be charged with simply "being Mask*deMasque", because that is not a crime. Each criminal offence must be dealt with separately, so Ron also cannot be charged with simply "stealing stuff"; he would have to be charged for each theft individually and have each charge answered with a court ruling. Therefore, while double jeopardy applies to the charge of stealing the urn, it cannot be applied to the theft of any of the other artifacts. Unless Ron were to have ridiculously good luck in his hearings, he would be found guilty, and is therefore should not be a free man at all.
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
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I suppose if Atmey knew that Ron was DeMasque (which he does) and could provide some sort of evidence to back it up, then I'd say that Ron could be arrested for his previous heists.
But that's only my opinion of the whole thing.
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
*twitch* *twitch*
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too much to convict him.
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
^ Ji Hye Jang
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
The Not Guilty verdict in the first half of 3-2 deals specifically with the Urn theft. I'm guessing that since he was found not guilty of that crime that they can't use any facts discovered in that case (ie that Ron DeLite is Mask*DeMasque) against him for his previous theft's.
I suppose if Atmey knew that Ron was DeMasque (which he does) and could provide some sort of evidence to back it up, then I'd say that Ron could be arrested for his previous heists.
But that's only my opinion of the whole thing.
I suppose if Atmey knew that Ron was DeMasque (which he does) and could provide some sort of evidence to back it up, then I'd say that Ron could be arrested for his previous heists.
But that's only my opinion of the whole thing.
Correct, to the best of my knowledge.
However, not only would he have to prove that Ron was Mask*DeMasque, but he would have to prove that the real Mask*DeMasque (and not an impostor or someone else entirely) was responsible for at least one of those thefts.
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Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
Never mess with a kid with an agenda
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Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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Marshmello wrote:
This is using the real-world legal system, of course, but I don't see how any differences from the Ace Attorney system would apply.
Then your thinking is off base to begin with.
Logic and the AA games' version of "law" don't usually coincide.
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
I know, Wright?
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Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
Alita x Wocky FTW!!
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I love Angel Starr!
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
Never mess with a kid with an agenda
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Rheine wrote:
^ Well what will happen to Monsieur Armstrong then?
He's committed other crimes against humanity that are far worse than petty theft.
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Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
Aw the Beatles were so innocent!
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Harmonia wrote:
I love too much to convict him.
too much to convict him.Doesn't everyone?
He's so cute!
Lovely Rita
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
Never mess with a kid with an agenda
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GamerErman2001 wrote:
The legal system is totally fucked up and unjust in this game.
Doesn't everyone? He's so cute!
Harmonia wrote:
I love too much to convict him.
too much to convict him.Doesn't everyone?
He's so cute!Yeah, really he is, I can't and won't try and deny it.
Sig links to my fanfic. MayaXPhoenix. Romance/humor. Final chapter is up.
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
I know, Wright?
Gender: Female
Location: Helluva-fax, New Scottishland
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:50 pm
Posts: 806
GamerErman2001 wrote:
The legal system is totally fucked up and unjust in this game.
QFT
Harmonia wrote:
I love too much to convict him.
too much to convict him.Same here, but legally-speaking he should be in jail.
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
Like, what?
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PLEASE DON'T CONVICT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!Seriously though, Ron is too cool to go to jail. I'm guessing in the games, however, we only really cover the murder cases. Whatever the characters do after the hearings, we don't know about. As far as we're concerned, Ron could have been tried for stealing, and Armstrong probably got tried as well for the Magamata incident. We really don't know. Then again, stealing is a far less serious crime than murder, so maybe Ron just got fined or something ^_^
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
^ Ji Hye Jang
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That could be possible for Jean Armstrong, though... although then you have to take into consideration that he was also the accomplice in a murder, so he'll probably get more trouble for that...
Proud creator of the first released PWLib-made fangame! ^_^
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
Bronze Samurai
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And how cool would two defendants be?
Julia...<3
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Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
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Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
Surf's Up!
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Tmabbbb wrote:
Since I believe the matter of Ron not being tried is relatively resolved, I'd like to point out a contradiction I noticed: Why would double jeoprady prevent Luke from being tried as Bullard's murderer? Double Jeopardy means that if you are found innocent, you cannot be tried again, but Atmey was about to find guilty for a different crime. Although double jeopardy prevents a not guilty verdict from being overturned, a guilty verdict can still be retried. (case 3-3) So, after Atmey gets his guilty verdict, what would stop Phoenix from defending him as Mask *jazz hands* deMasque, then getting him found guilty of Bullard's murder?
You are forgetting that Luke wants to be found guilty as Mask DeMasque so that he has an alibi for Bullard's murder, ie he was stealing the urn at Lordly Tailor, whilst Bullard was murdered.
Besides, Phoenix can't force Luke to take him on as his defense lawyer, anyway.
Also, I'm not sure Luke would have got an appeal before Phoenix was disbarred anyway (for the Zak Gramarye case).
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
I AM AMI
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
You are forgetting that Luke wants to be found guilty as Mask DeMasque so that he has an alibi for Bullards murder
Yes, that was Luke's plan all along, but, while he's being questioned at Ron's trial, when Nick accuses him of being the real murderer, but can't immediately present decisive evidence, the Judge warns him that if he can't prove then and there that Luke was the real murderer, he would be untouchable due to Double Jeopardy, which is the reason it comes up in the first place.
Which is not how DJ works.
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
Surf's Up!
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Kamino Neko wrote:
NinjaMonkey wrote:
You are forgetting that Luke wants to be found guilty as Mask DeMasque so that he has an alibi for Bullards murder
Yes, that was Luke's plan all along, but, while he's being questioned at Ron's trial, when Nick accuses him of being the real murderer, but can't immediately present decisive evidence, the Judge warns him that if he can't prove then and there that Luke was the real murderer, he would be untouchable due to Double Jeopardy, which is the reason it comes up in the first place.
Which is not how DJ works.
In the AA universe it does (and that is what counts).
Re: 3-2 contradiction: Double jeopardy
Deception&&contradiction
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
The Not Guilty verdict in the first half of 3-2 deals specifically with the Urn theft. I'm guessing that since he was found not guilty of that crime that they can't use any facts discovered in that case (ie that Ron DeLite is Mask*DeMasque) against him for his previous theft's.
I suppose if Atmey knew that Ron was DeMasque (which he does) and could provide some sort of evidence to back it up, then I'd say that Ron could be arrested for his previous heists.
But that's only my opinion of the whole thing.
I suppose if Atmey knew that Ron was DeMasque (which he does) and could provide some sort of evidence to back it up, then I'd say that Ron could be arrested for his previous heists.
But that's only my opinion of the whole thing.
Ah..I thought he was tried for mask demasque and found not guilty from the way everyone was acting still..I think it was an excuse to use Double Jeopardy in effect and give ron a happy ending after all....tho' somehow I suspected Ron was..Demasque all along..but if you did'nt accuse Luke Atmey in the 1st part..you'd get penalised >P
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