Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Fri May 23, 2008 4:01 am

literatehyaena

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... so did Godot strike anyone else as possibly or potentially deranged? I don't mean that in a bad way, but... hm, well, let me put it this way. Usually I spend a lot of time getting into a character's head and making at least partial sense of him or her, but I spent all of GS3 essentially going "...what?" to many parts of what Godot said or did. Apparently I'm not alone in this? When I first finished GS3 I promptly handed it to my flatmate to play and during the first trial he declared that "Godot is kind of a freak." And his opinion didn't change all through or after finishing the game. That sounds a little horrible unless you know him (my flatmate), but a couple other people I know have also expressed similar ambivalence and uncertainty about what exactly Godot is doing, so... this... kind of came up while I was looking for possible explanations. It also 'came up' about all of fifteen minutes ago, so this is absolutely... first draft theory material. Whatever. It's all in a big fat spoiler thing because there are spoilers in the argument/reasoning. Self-explanatory. There's a TL;DR at the bottom because... it's long.

Spoiler: GS3

Let me rehash: Godot is... well, on one hand he's rather extroverted, which is fine, but he peppers perfectly reasonable court statements and other sentences with bizarre non-sequiters and almost completely incomprehensible metaphors that feel like they're missing like sixty percent of what's required to make sense. He's almost winging off into left field except he's perfectly aware of what's going on and it's... not like what he's sang doesn't have some sort of meaning, it's just incredibly distorted and often incomprehensible (or incomprehensibly complicated or unneeded.) And then there are his almost irrationally organised legal assaults on Phoenix, and his bizarre two-faced relationship with Maya (and Pearl) that just... everything would make sense but for an inescapable reason that's beyond MY grasp, it just doesn't. Not from a normal human being's standpoint. And his reasoning is... way out in left field, speak--it's not bad reasoning, it's just frequently... like bizarro logic inserted into a perfectly rational thought process. It threw me for loops many times. It's like he has irrational fixations on certain things (coffee, possibly Mia) that get thrown into the works ever fifteen minutes or so and it hashes everything up and it comes out bizarre... without him ever really noticing it as out of the ordinary.

There's also the way he thinks of and refers back to his body, which I think is absolutely cool, but which is... well, he talks of it like an an object or a machine (or a car), which again makes perfect sense but it doesn't--from a normal human being standpoint. (I spend a lot of time talking about normal human beings, but I use it in the theoretical sense... as the fact that I'm writing absolutely proves that I am not one.)

And then there's the whole apparent emotional impairment that he refers to. :B

Thinking back, however, his body and mind suffered an (well, more than one, possibly) extreme trauma from the whole poisoning and 'dying' and spending three years in a bloody coma--stresses and trauma that... well, no normal human being experiences. And I don't know what treatments they used, but it's entirely possible he came out of that with some sort of undetectable (or detectable... either way, minor) neurological damage that disrupted the way he... related to and associated with the world and the reasoning processes involved therein. If you were to take that as 'fact' (or at least hold onto as an idea) for a little bit and consider how he manages to be absolutely functional in every way (almost every way)--in court proceedings, in life, in all those other things--t makes him.... actually, I think that's actually pretty awesome. And if you think about it, he is perfectly competent. The entire game proved him as a competent prosecutor--not against Phoenix, really (and perhaps he needs some way to see red), but in the line of competent prosecutors before him, in terms of preparation and rational argument (sans bizarro tangents and mini monologues)--he's absolutely normal. And then there's... the rest of what I just delineated, which isn't.

Maybe I just like the idea of a potentially (slightly) neurologically abnormal guy perfectly (or more or less... perfectly) functioning in a normal society, but the explanation makes a lot of sense to me in terms of Godot and everything he did.

... feel free to counter with arguments about Diego--Diego struck me as significantly less extreme, but I was also just begging that trial to end because oh gods was it tedious.

TL;DR Version: Do you think Godot is crazy?

Ich will.

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Fri May 23, 2008 6:23 am

ggmoonycrisco

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I think Godot is totally fascinating and I write things with and about him a lot, so forgive me if I pepper this with my own insights-- but I like to picture Godot as having willingly thrown away everything he was, including his name and his identity as Diego. All of this to escape his guilt over Mia's death and his own grief at what happened to him. He seems to have a perfect grasp on the situation sometimes-- he doesn't really believe that Diego was someone else entirely-- and yet at some points, it's blurry and it's almost as though he DOES think he's someone else entirely. Towards the end of the game as he veers closer to the edge, he starts to get control of himself before falling beyond help. If you really look at it closely, it does seem like he keeps drifting between the saner and snarkier Diego and the angrier and less rational Godot through all the game's events.

He's certainly teetering down the path of craziness. I like the way you mentioned him dancing all over the line-- because that's what it seems like to me. Godot clearly isn't entirely right in the head, but he is perfectly capable and comes off as a totally normal and rational person anyway. I'm working on a fic that details the time right after Diego woke up, and I have the hospital sending him to a therapist when he starts assuming the Godot name-- but there's technically nothing they can do since he's so rational and collected that they can't say he's a danger to himself or others, so they have no choice but to let him do his own thing.

As far as the metaphors go, I don't think that's a sign of craziness- the man just has a way with words. He's clearly quite an amateur poet when he's Diego too. :godot:

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Fri May 23, 2008 10:35 pm

Phoenix_Apollo

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Well, let's see:

He was in a coma for SIX years, so he missed his golden years.

Mia died; making him lose his love.

He was a coffee addict as Diego

He had metaphors as Diego

I think the problem is, that he didn't like Phoenix. He thought that Nick let Mia die, and could never forgive him for it. I don't think he's messed up a bit in the head, because while he had mood changes, it all comes back to his opinion of ~~Trite~~ Wright.

Julia...<3

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Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Fri May 23, 2008 10:43 pm

literatehyaena

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Holy cow, someone replied! Edit: Two someones!

Ah, yeah--I referenced the metaphors because some of them do seem to be completely irrationally based or they show a disconnect with reality (the "context" of the situation) and can be difficult to follow, not because there's anything wrong with them themselves. XD I rather like them, but sometimes they do seem a bit more bizarre than relevant. (I wish I could think of an example, but my copy of GS3 is... at my flat... while I am at my mother's house a few hours away with no car. Uh.)

And... yeah, that was almost exactly my point--there are times when he's perfectly reasonable (albeit a totally different person) and then there are other times where... well, he almost seems to become a caricature of his previous self--ridiculous and almost comical if it weren't so disorienting. In a lot of ways I don't think he can escape his previous identity as Diego--not the least of which is Mia, of course. So, yeah, what you said about how "he keeps drifting between the saner and snarkier Diego and the angrier and less rational Godot through all the game's events" is very much what started this... train of thought. You expressed it a lot better than I did in some ways... I think that for me Godot is an interesting character as much because he's not right in the head as he is because of what he did because of it.

I'd be very interested in seeing that fic you're writing when you're finished, if you'd like to share it--there's not enough good Godot/Diego fanfiction out there anyway, let alone new angles of it.

---

And... dangit, I shoulda left the metaphors out of it. The metaphors were just something he did a lot so I tried to incorporate them. Fail. I guess it just seems to me that there's something else going on there and that... the raw facts explain it, but that he's... not fully explained by them. I tend to overcomplicate things a lot, but I don't... well, he does teeter back and forth a lot and it's interesting. The end. I don't know what else to say now. :yuusaku:

Ich will.

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Fri May 23, 2008 11:29 pm

ggmoonycrisco

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Don't worry about the metaphors, hahaha. I get what you're saying. I think they're more of a character quirk than a sign of instability. They certainly made me laugh.

I think Mia is certainly the biggest thing holding him from totally turning into someone different, but there's shades of his decency in there too. Godot is ruthless and vengeful where Diego still has some morals and decency. The fact that he repents and accepts his Diego name again makes him an immensely more sympathetic character. I wouldn't like him as much as I do if he wasn't repentant about his actions at the end of the game.

I'll certainly share my fic when I'm done with it. It's very hard to write because it's very intensely depressing, obviously... >.>

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Sat May 24, 2008 4:45 am

literatehyaena

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ggmoonycrisco wrote:

Don't worry about the metaphors, hahaha. I get what you're saying. I think they're more of a character quirk than a sign of instability. They certainly made me laugh.

I think Mia is certainly the biggest thing holding him from totally turning into someone different, but there's shades of his decency in there too. Godot is ruthless and vengeful where Diego still has some morals and decency. The fact that he repents and accepts his Diego name again makes him an immensely more sympathetic character. I wouldn't like him as much as I do if he wasn't repentant about his actions at the end of the game.

I'll certainly share my fic when I'm done with it. It's very hard to write because it's very intensely depressing, obviously... >.>

... yeah, that happens sometimes. I look forward to reading it, though!

On another note, do you

Spoiler: GS3

Ich will.

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:03 pm

polkadot

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Spoiler: putting this all inside to be safe

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:23 pm

Phoenix_Apollo

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polkadot wrote:

Spoiler: putting this all inside to be safe

Your English debating is FINE. Seriously, it is.

However, like my poor, poor, cracked (and it's a long crack, hopefully that's all it'll stay), Godot pot, there's a reason for everything.

Spoiler: 3-5

Julia...<3

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Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:08 am

SteppinLadder

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literatehyaena wrote:

ggmoonycrisco wrote:

Don't worry about the metaphors, hahaha. I get what you're saying. I think they're more of a character quirk than a sign of instability. They certainly made me laugh.

I think Mia is certainly the biggest thing holding him from totally turning into someone different, but there's shades of his decency in there too. Godot is ruthless and vengeful where Diego still has some morals and decency. The fact that he repents and accepts his Diego name again makes him an immensely more sympathetic character. I wouldn't like him as much as I do if he wasn't repentant about his actions at the end of the game.

I'll certainly share my fic when I'm done with it. It's very hard to write because it's very intensely depressing, obviously... >.>

... yeah, that happens sometimes. I look forward to reading it, though!

On another note, do you

Spoiler: GS3

From the impression I've had of the game not everyone who was proven guilty of murder was executed.

Spoiler:

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:48 am

ggmoonycrisco

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Spoiler: 3-5

Spoiler: And on the alter-ego bit

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:17 am

Phoenix_Apollo

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ggmoonycrisco wrote:

Spoiler: 3-5

Oh man, that's so sad...and I'm playing Reminiscence: Hazy Scenery at Dusky Bridge right now, so... :larry:

Spoiler:

Julia...<3

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Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:03 am

Jade

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Godot... what can I say? He confuzzles me so much... :yuusaku:

I've constantly tried to step into his shoes and look at his actions from his point of view, but I dunno, his thought process feels .... too complex, I guess I could say. He's a very deep character and he's one of the few characters which I still can't figure out. Characters like him and DeKiller are the kinds that I feel like I know that I'll never understand completely, and it may just be easier to accept their character instead of trying to flesh out all the reasons for what they do.... I'm not saying I'm not gonna keep speculating though :edgy:

As for whether he dies, I see it at this viewpoint: Everything that he was living for during his time as Diego :javado:

had been taken away from him when he woke up from his coma. Now if I were him, I'd wish that I had never woken up. However, he still had some "unfinished business" (yes, I watched Casper not too long ago, so sue me.... hehe not literally) so he put up with the annoying checkups, complicated machinery, and all his pain by channeling it into his revenge. At the end of GS3 though, everything seems to have closure. In my opinion, I feel that Godot no longer has anything left to do. He got his revenge against Dahlia (sorta), he finally understood and stopped bullying Trite-- erm Phoenix, but of course, he can't really get Mia back. :sadshoe:

I feel that, no matter what happened after GS3, Godot didn't live very long. I like to think that he was so cool and ironic that he poisoned his own coffee so he could die doing something he loved. <---- Yeah I know that sounds corny AND depressing...

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:18 am

Lynx

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I like the idea of Godot as a bit of a nutter, because his actions around 3-5 are really irrational, if I remember well enough (it's been a while, admittedly).

Spoiler:

Whatever, I just didn't get that case and found it wholly unsatisfactory. But I did like Godot. :godot:

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Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:11 pm

ggmoonycrisco

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Spoiler: 3-5's AWESOMEO PLAN

Spoiler: Godot post-game

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:57 pm

Phoenix_Apollo

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ggmoonycrisco wrote:

Spoiler: 3-5's AWESOMEO PLAN

Spoiler: 3-5

Unrelatedly, who thinks Morgan died during 3-5?

Spoiler:

Quote:

Spoiler: Godot post-game

[/quote]

I would so totally love that. I mean, really love it. I'd make Apollo go back there every chance I get, and just talk to him repeatedly because it's him.

Julia...<3

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Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:04 pm

hippietree12

rock on and peace out everyone!!!

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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:

ggmoonycrisco wrote:

Spoiler: 3-5's AWESOMEO PLAN

Spoiler: 3-5

Quote:

Spoiler: Godot post-game

I would so totally love that. I mean, really love it. I'd make Apollo go back there every chance I get, and just talk to him repeatedly because it's him.[/quote]

i totally agree with the person above. it would be nice to see godot again and the morgan fey thing.

i don't think godot is crazy, just that he likes being wierd and "ungodly cool".

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:03 am

SteppinLadder

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ggmoonycrisco wrote:

Spoiler: 3-5's AWESOMEO PLAN

Spoiler: Godot post-game

Pfft. The whole series is so in the future with technological advances such as MASON and wristphones they'd be shooting pigeons with laser seed canons

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:36 pm

hippietree12

rock on and peace out everyone!!!

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oh that wud be soooo hilarious if kudo came back with a seed cannon! :seeds:

i've got you now pidgeons! there's no escaping victor kudo! that goes for you too attorney! *smashed appollo into the wall with seeds*

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:14 am

literatehyaena

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There are some really interesting opinions here. I rather like that. :> That said, I think I might have a small seizure if I spotted Godot at some point in another game. And I can't decide whether I'd be angry with Capcom or not for something like that.

Spoiler:

Ich will.

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:06 pm

hippietree12

rock on and peace out everyone!!!

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why would you be angry at capcom?

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:13 pm

Bloodroot Godot

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So...does all this mean he got off on *temporary* insanity?

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:11 pm

hippietree12

rock on and peace out everyone!!!

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depends on what you mean by temporary. i don't think he'll be "normal" again

Spoiler:

(then again who is normal in this crazy world?!)

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:41 am

Bloodroot Godot

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hippietree12 wrote:

(then again who is normal in this crazy world?!)

Not me, that's fairly definite.

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:18 pm

hippietree12

rock on and peace out everyone!!!

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me neither.

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:29 pm

Xanatos

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It'd be interesting, if in P.P, you end up finding Godot in a park, drinking coffee. Interacting with him would play a remixed version of ~The Fragrance of Dark Coffee~ and he'd use one of his coffee metaphors

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Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:57 am

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YES HE IS CRAZY AND THAT MAKES HIM EVEN COOLER
BUT YOU DESCRIBE HIS CRAZINESS AS LIKE YOU'RE DESCRIBING A FREAKY GEEKY NERD

:zenny:

*AAAAAHHHEEEEMMMMMMM*
okay im a bit carried away
but i think his strange metaphor and all is awesome.

oh yeah i willl love to see him on the next game too.

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Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:30 pm

Jeff.Smart

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Spoiler:

No matter the man, we all wear masks - Either on our faces or over our hearts...

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:50 am

Bloodroot Godot

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@ Jeff.Smart--Who isn't an utter Godot fan?

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:35 am

Jeff.Smart

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Bloodroot Godot wrote:

@ Jeff.Smart--Who isn't an utter Godot fan?

There are always those who fail to acknowledge the obvious ;)

No matter the man, we all wear masks - Either on our faces or over our hearts...

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:21 am

hippietree12

rock on and peace out everyone!!!

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i <3 godot.
he's my favorite prosecutor. then edgeworth.
@ godot-fangirl: if he was a nerd i'd be more annoyed at him.

Re: Deviant Theory of Godot--Deranged? (Spoilers, Lots of Them)

Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:22 pm

Bloodroot Godot

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Godot cannot manage nerdiness. His devilishly cool aura does not allow it.