Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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FinchUK wrote:
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but this is something I just don't get.
4-1 opening scene - we find Drew Misham (isn't it Vera with the mad drawing skills?) sketching the scene of the poker game between Hobo Nick and Shadi. This implies that the sketch is happening as events unfold, although I'm willing to let that one go down under 'artistic license by the animator'.
4-1 opening scene - we find Drew Misham (isn't it Vera with the mad drawing skills?) sketching the scene of the poker game between Hobo Nick and Shadi. This implies that the sketch is happening as events unfold, although I'm willing to let that one go down under 'artistic license by the animator'.
Actually, While Vera is the FORGER, Drew Misham IS an artist. He wouldn't be famous enough for Brushel's interview if he was only known on the black market rather than known for art. I'm pretty sure it mentioned he was an illustrator... Wasn't it? I'm guessing Drew liked to sketch on the canvas then let Vera cover it for him, maybe for something as simple as an urge to fill an empty paper/canvas (I have that urge with blank paper all the time
) Also, as much as the 'happening as events unfold' part of it, I've always viewed The first case as an 'unofficial flashback case'. After playing through the game, My conclusion of that scene is that Drew is drawing The picture of the poker game after the case, which comes to life (due to artistic liscense) to show what happened in the case, leading up to Apollo joining the Wright Anything Agency. The paintings lined up around the room are painting Vera have yet to duplicate.
FinchUK wrote:
4-4 - Apollo, Trucy and Ema scan the pictures to reveal the three sketches of the previous three cases, to much confusion. Later, Drew Misham notes Phoenix's name and says something about keeping an eye on him.
HOWEVER! I'm confused as to why no one questioned WHY he sketched the cases on canvas, and HOW he knew about them, and why he was covering Apollo's cases anyway. My brain hurts. >.<
HOWEVER! I'm confused as to why no one questioned WHY he sketched the cases on canvas, and HOW he knew about them, and why he was covering Apollo's cases anyway. My brain hurts. >.<
Why: What I said above, I guess. He wanted to draw something, and he was interested in Phoenix.
How: He told Phoenix he'd keep an eye on him, so I'm guessing he heard about Phoenix being tried for murder (consitering he was a famous lawyer who was disbarred, I can't imagine the media not giving him much attention) and followed the trial as well as the trials of his new protigee, Apollo.
Why Squared: Because they were slightly related to Phoenix (Sorta like a spin-off interest, if you will). Phoenix's story as a lawyer had ended, and he'd taken Apollo under his wing... So yeah.
My contradiction:
'Strangley Goodness'
Case 4-2
(More of an 'image-typo', i guess...)
On When Alita's asked about her kneck, we get two pictures. The first is The back of her kneck in the courthouse, the other is Pal strangling her.
Judging from the marks (Scars maybe?) in the first picture, it appears that Pal is strangling her from behind, due to the two sides not connecting and being slightly spaced apart (Spiral-like, I guess). However, in the other picture, you see him on top of her strangling her. If he strangled her from the front, the back of her kneck would have a solid mark, and the front would have the spiral-ish 'nonconnection'.
Not that this really matters, but it's just been nagging me.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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NinjasVsPirates wrote:
Actually, While Vera is the FORGER, Drew Misham IS an artist. He wouldn't be famous enough for Brushel's interview if he was only known on the black market rather than known for art. I'm pretty sure it mentioned he was an illustrator... Wasn't it? I'm guessing Drew liked to sketch on the canvas then let Vera cover it for him, maybe for something as simple as an urge to fill an empty paper/canvas (I have that urge with blank paper all the time )
)Drew wasn't the one who drew on the canvases, it was Vera. She tells Apollo that in order to make a forgery there only needed to be evidence of a sketch underneath because determining what the sketch was was impossible (she didn't know about Ema's special thingy), so she drew whatever she wanted underneath the paintings. "Whatever she wanted" turned out to be scenes from Apollo's cases.
NinjasVsPirates wrote:
My contradiction:
'Strangley Goodness'
Case 4-2
(More of an 'image-typo', i guess...)
On When Alita's asked about her kneck, we get two pictures. The first is The back of her kneck in the courthouse, the other is Pal strangling her.
Judging from the marks (Scars maybe?) in the first picture, it appears that Pal is strangling her from behind, due to the two sides not connecting and being slightly spaced apart (Spiral-like, I guess). However, in the other picture, you see him on top of her strangling her. If he strangled her from the front, the back of her kneck would have a solid mark, and the front would have the spiral-ish 'nonconnection'.
Not that this really matters, but it's just been nagging me.
'Strangley Goodness'
Case 4-2
(More of an 'image-typo', i guess...)
On When Alita's asked about her kneck, we get two pictures. The first is The back of her kneck in the courthouse, the other is Pal strangling her.
Judging from the marks (Scars maybe?) in the first picture, it appears that Pal is strangling her from behind, due to the two sides not connecting and being slightly spaced apart (Spiral-like, I guess). However, in the other picture, you see him on top of her strangling her. If he strangled her from the front, the back of her kneck would have a solid mark, and the front would have the spiral-ish 'nonconnection'.
Not that this really matters, but it's just been nagging me.
Good eye, but it might not necessarily be a contradiction. Meraktis strangled her with a lamp cord, and if the lamp cord in question was like these:
... then the mark on the back of Alita's neck could have simply been a twist in the cord.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Marshmello wrote:
NinjasVsPirates wrote:
Actually, While Vera is the FORGER, Drew Misham IS an artist. He wouldn't be famous enough for Brushel's interview if he was only known on the black market rather than known for art. I'm pretty sure it mentioned he was an illustrator... Wasn't it? I'm guessing Drew liked to sketch on the canvas then let Vera cover it for him, maybe for something as simple as an urge to fill an empty paper/canvas (I have that urge with blank paper all the time )
)Drew wasn't the one who drew on the canvases, it was Vera. She tells Apollo that in order to make a forgery there only needed to be evidence of a sketch underneath because determining what the sketch was was impossible (she didn't know about Ema's special thingy), so she drew whatever she wanted underneath the paintings. "Whatever she wanted" turned out to be scenes from Apollo's cases.
Actually NinjasVsPirates is right. Drew did the sketches beneath the paintings and then Vera painted on top of them. When Vera was asked about the paintings, she comments that her father had been following the Wright Anything Agency for years and that he had been very happy when they had started practicing law again. Later on in the case towards the end of the flashback after all that chaos, Drew asks for Phoenix's name and promises to remember him. It was after that he began to keep tabs on Phoenix. He had been following Phoenix (and later Apollo) because he was upset about how things turned out for Phoenix and felt responsible. Apollo catches Drew's eye because he becomes a part of the Wright Anything Agency (therefore being connected to Phoenix) and, more importantly, he was the law part of the agency.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Marshmello wrote:
Where did it say that Drew did the sketches? I'm almost positive that Vera tells you that she did the sketches herself.
Thanks for the 'Vera'-fication, Mia_Fey. ((That pun's probably gonna be just as painful to read as it was to write))
I'm not sure I remember it saying that either of them do it, but we SEE Drew drawing on the canvas in the first case's intro video, so I think that's the most we can get as 'proof'.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Marshmello wrote:
Where did it say that Drew did the sketches? I'm almost positive that Vera tells you that she did the sketches herself.
Vera confirms it when you talk to her before she takes the stand. I'm not sure she says "Dad did the sketches," but she does talk about how it was her father who was keeping track of Apollo and not her. This is followed by a cute comment from Trucy suggesting that maybe Drew was "Daddy's daddy" (the first daddy being Phoenix because this is where we first find out about the connection to him). It was Drew and not Vera who was watching Phoenix. Since I don't have the script, this is a segment from CR's main page with the case summaries. "They're called back to court, but before they go, Apollo asks her about the pictures hidden beneath her forged art. Vera admits that her father already knew about Apollo, and was always talking about Phoenix Wright and his law office. He's gathered all sorts of information on them. He also seemed especially happy to hear that someone was practicing law out of Wright & Co. again." Add in the image of Drew doing the paintings and I think we have our answer. :)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Perhaps Vera got her inspiration from whatever Drew was finding out about Apollo. She doesn't really get out much, so it isn't so unlikely that she would draw ideas from her father.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Marshmello wrote:
I'll have to find a quote, because I clearly remember Vera saying something like "It didn't matter what I sketched underneath the paintings, so I drew whatever I wanted and then painted over it". I concede that Drew is shown drawing on the canvas in the opening, but the openings are frequently misleading and can overuse creative license. I don't really count those scenes as reliable.
Perhaps Vera got her inspiration from whatever Drew was finding out about Apollo. She doesn't really get out much, so it isn't so unlikely that she would draw ideas from her father.
Perhaps Vera got her inspiration from whatever Drew was finding out about Apollo. She doesn't really get out much, so it isn't so unlikely that she would draw ideas from her father.
Ema, not Vera, said that about the forger in general. I remember that distinctly. It's when you're in the studio and start talking about the forgeries before X-raying them (while we still think the forger is actually Drew). It's Ema's explanation for why the bottom layer on that one painting doesn't match the top layer.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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At the start of 4-1, Payne says to Phoenix, something like "The first time I saw you, you were a rookie attorney, and now I'll get to see you leave in chains".
But
a minute, the first time that Payne saw Phoenix was in 3-1, which takes place BEFORE 1-1. 
Of course, Payne is 60-odd by this point, so he might have forgotten (but I'd just thought I'd mention it).
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Plus, Payne could have mentally blocked out his loss to Mia.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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BigFish wrote:
.Plus, Payne could have mentally blocked out his loss to Mia.
But how else would he explain his hair loss because of that trial?
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Apollo is 22 years old, correct?
Well, he must be a freaking genius. To become an attorney you have to go through at least about 3 years to get a bachelor's degree and then however many years of law school.
And don't get me started on Franziska. XD
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Quote:
But how else would he explain his hair loss because of that trial?
..... How often are you going to ask someone "How'd you lose your hair?"!?
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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BigFish wrote:
..... How often are you going to ask someone "How'd you lose your hair?"!?
...And your point is?
What I'm saying is that in 4-1, Payne ignores what happened in 3-1 completely, and refer to 1-1 as the first time they'd met. Which I find puzzling (though easily explainable).
(Of course, it wouldn't be the same if he said something like "The first time I saw you you were a snivelling crybaby....)
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Leo wrote:
This isn't really a contradiction, just a technicality:
Apollo is 22 years old, correct?
Well, he must be a freaking genius. To become an attorney you have to go through at least about 3 years to get a bachelor's degree and then however many years of law school.
And don't get me started on Franziska. XD
Apollo is 22 years old, correct?
Well, he must be a freaking genius. To become an attorney you have to go through at least about 3 years to get a bachelor's degree and then however many years of law school.
And don't get me started on Franziska. XD
It's the fluture, fool!
You obviously don't need any sort of education or skills to become a lawyer in the fluture. Phoenix was the one who was taking law "on the side" and never read a law book.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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There were two decks of cards, blue and red. The red ones were being used in the game between Shadi and Phoenix, and during the struggle (Phoenix grabbing the locket, Shadi beaning Olga with the bottle) the red deck was knocked to the floor, leaving the blue deck on the table.
When Kristoph killed Shadi and looked down and saw the blood drop, he feared it would give away the murder method, and so he took it. If he snatched it up and shoved it right into his pocket/wherever, there's no reason for him to know the color of the back, because Shadi's hand was already face up on the table. He wouldn't have been able to see the red cards all over the floor if he barely stepped inside, so all he saw was the blue deck sitting on the table.
And if he saw the back of the ace later, while disposing of it (wherever it ended up) that could just be his oversight.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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nose wrote:
I just remembered one from a while ago which I kept remembering then forgetting again. Valant didn't get the guilty verdict for killing magnifi due to Phoenix's presenting of false evidence and Zak dissapearing. However earlier in the case they said when investigating the guns that they hadn't had time to investigate which gun had shot Magnifi, however after Zak had dissapeared they would of surely investigated the guns more as they had time and found that it was Valant's gun that had shot Magnifi, where Valant would surely have been found guilty.
I'm pretty sure that this situation will fall under a cold case scenario. Given that the civil law in the AA environment is similar to civil code of law in Japan (i.e. verbal confession is considered the truth of the matter), with the defence disbarred and as well as the defendant disappearing without having any say, I would consider that enough reason not to proceed any further till further evidence comes into light.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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nose wrote:
I just remembered one from a while ago which I kept remembering then forgetting again. Valant didn't get the guilty verdict for killing magnifi due to Phoenix's presenting of false evidence and Zak dissapearing. However earlier in the case they said when investigating the guns that they hadn't had time to investigate which gun had shot Magnifi, however after Zak had dissapeared they would of surely investigated the guns more as they had time and found that it was Valant's gun that had shot Magnifi, where Valant would surely have been found guilty.
However, one gun was taken from the scene. Leaving only one gun to be discovered.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
They don't :c
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Bolt Storm wrote:
Spoiler: The Mason System and Psycho Locks
Spoiler:
EDIT: Sorry if it has already said, I'm too lazy to read
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler: Case 4-3
EDIT: Ack, sorry. I didn't realize that this would be more appropriate for "Just want to know one thing...". ._.
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Kono you no kioku ni kizamu tame, arukitsuzukeru BELIEVER~
Katakuna ni shinjitsuzuketai, it's just my faith, the absolute truth~
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler:
Someone tell me I'm not insane. ._.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Turnabout Serenade
If Romein LeTouse was shot during Act 2, then Apollo could not have heard his last words in Act 3. Think about it, the gun was powerful, and he died of loss of blood, and there was a twenty minute intermission, shouldn't he have been dead at the end of The Guitars' Serenade?
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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SF_Bahamut wrote:
I don't know if this has been posted before or not, but it's something that's on my mind right now...
Someone tell me I'm not insane. ._.
Spoiler:
Someone tell me I'm not insane. ._.
It's actually kind of neat, in the Mason System, when you switch between 7 years ago and present, all the character's ages update to match what time period you are in. If you notice, while it says Apollo is 15, Kristoph's age is also 7 years younger. However, the descriptions for the characters don't change, hence why it says Kristoph is incarcerated even though this is seven years before the fact. But when you go over to the present time, it will list Apollo as 22 and Kristoph as his accurate age (32? 34? something like that) along with the same descriptions.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Both third case.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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IagotheParrot wrote:
Sorry if these have already been said, which they probably have, just wanted to so to speak get it off my chest. Or mind. Whichever.
Both third case.
Both third case.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Something I just noticed, also about the third case:
Spoiler:
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Bad Player wrote:
Romein was actually shot in the middle of the second act... why the heck did he lay around doing nothing until the middle of the third act when he was discovered? I mean, I know it would've been hard, but he could've crawled over to the door or something.
He could have spent part of the time unconscious. Maybe he went into shock until the firecrackers went off, and that's why. I've never been shot but I probably wouldn't be able to crawl around with a hole in me either.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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)Croik wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Romein was actually shot in the middle of the second act... why the heck did he lay around doing nothing until the middle of the third act when he was discovered? I mean, I know it would've been hard, but he could've crawled over to the door or something.
He could have spent part of the time unconscious. Maybe he went into shock until the firecrackers went off, and that's why. I've never been shot but I probably wouldn't be able to crawl around with a hole in me either.
That's actually a really good point.
Although I thought of something else: If there was a hole in his chest, then wouldn't there have been a ton of blood on the floor? I'd imagine there's be a ton of blood with a hole in you. And thus, wouldn't have have died from blood loss by then? Hmm....
And Greeny, I guess that's the same reason why the American gov couldn't ask the Borginian gov for a sample of the incuritis cure for use on the sick guy. (Not cocoons, not poison, nothing like that--just the cure.)
And I still don't get why Borginia is so harsh about the cocoons. I mean, so what if ppl can't have cocoon poison? There's still potassium cyanide and atroquinine and 20 billion other poisons
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Last edited by Jeff.Smart on Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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When he does the air guitar thing in court he cleary holds the guitar as a left-handed player would do (strumming hand left, picking hand right).
But when you see him on stage he's suddenly right-handed! And also his guitars are right-hand guitars (as far as I've seen)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Jeff.Smart wrote:
Don't know if it was mentioned before and it's not really a case contradiction but more of a general contradiction concerning Klaviers guitar playing.
When he does the air guitar thing in court he cleary holds the guitar as a left-handed player would do (strumming hand left, picking hand right).
But when you see him on stage he's suddenly right-handed! And also his guitars are right-hand guitars (as far as I've seen)
When he does the air guitar thing in court he cleary holds the guitar as a left-handed player would do (strumming hand left, picking hand right).
But when you see him on stage he's suddenly right-handed! And also his guitars are right-hand guitars (as far as I've seen)
Maybe he's ambidextrous?
Still, it's only air guitars...
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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And being ambidextrous doesn't really make sense as well. Since he's a professional musician he probably has longer nails on his Strumming hand to do proper fingerpicking (at least I reckon that most professional guitarists are doing that, even if they play with a pick most of the time). Now if he turned the guitar around the long nails would prevent him from pushing the strings properly.
Plus, if he was ambidextrous you would think he had at least one left-handed guitar but I didn't really see any of that...
(yeah finally got meself a contradiction even if it's just a stupid one like that)
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Spoiler: Case 3 again...
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Spoiler:
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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I guess they could've figured that at first but I still think it's kinda stupid(which...I mean we're talking about the Judge here so that's not really far off) seeing as [spoiler]he didn't actually fire the gun and seemed thoroughly intact even at the time of the trial[/spoiler] But anyway. That's just my bias ha ha.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
Not sure that this counts as a contradiction, but I'm going to run with it:
At the start of 4-1, Payne says to Phoenix, something like "The first time I saw you, you were a rookie attorney, and now I'll get to see you leave in chains".
But a minute, the first time that Payne saw Phoenix was in 3-1, which takes place BEFORE 1-1.
Of course, Payne is 60-odd by this point, so he might have forgotten (but I'd just thought I'd mention it).
At the start of 4-1, Payne says to Phoenix, something like "The first time I saw you, you were a rookie attorney, and now I'll get to see you leave in chains".
But
a minute, the first time that Payne saw Phoenix was in 3-1, which takes place BEFORE 1-1. Of course, Payne is 60-odd by this point, so he might have forgotten (but I'd just thought I'd mention it).
Payne only said that he saw Phoenix enter the courtroom a new attorney, not that that was their first meeting.
As for LeTouse not naming his killer, perhaps he didn't know who Daryan was. As for his not describing Daryan's distinctive hair, maybe he tied it back or something.
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