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Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Mmm, bacon.

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Spoiler: PW1
1-1: I watched the intro.

1-2: Same there, especially since I think I knew Mia died, so it was important.

1-3: I actually don't remember. Probably suspected Oldbag for a while.

1-4: I dunno, I just wanted to save Edgeworth.

1-5: Probably got spoiled, but didn't care. Gant was one heck of a villain. :D And he was suspicious to me as soon as he walked in and Ema said the temperature rose. Then I got scared at the end when he said how Ema did it, but I had to protect her...


Spoiler: JFA
2-1: Well, it sure wasn't Maggey. Another case 1; WTF was I supposed to think? :P

2-2: Pretty sure I suspected Morgan at least after some point, but when you mess with spirits, you don't know who's gonna kill you. Especially in a series where that's part of the story.

2-3: They were all too crazy for me to know what to think.

2-4: Had to be Adrian, right? I'd found out there was a case with a guilty client, but I didn't know if that was in JFA or T&T, but I assumed T&T because that was the one I didn't have and it also had something else I wanted to play, which was the case with the ridiculously cute pink Phoenix. Hey, this kind of logic worked with Super Metroid. XD


Spoiler: T&T
3-1: IT WAS TOTALLY GROSSBERG THE MURDER WEAPON WAS HEMORRHOIDS Nah, seriously, I found out it was Dahlia before JFA even had a US release announced. Not sure you can really call it a spoiler, since who else could it even be?

3-2: I dunno, but I definitely spent some time wondering how anyone expected Luke's nose to fit under that mask. Now that I think of it, though, maybe his nose is unnaturally bendy like Brendon's from Home Movies?

3-3: I'd seen a picture of Tigre. Obviously he was supposed to be a Phoenix impostor and also a bad guy (though I thought he was gonna frame Phoenix for murder). Also, I watched the intro.

3-4: Thought Terry actually killed someone as soon as I first saw him and was therefore intimidated about having to defend him. But then Dahlia arrived on the scene. She wasn't fooling me with that fake name.

3-5: Where to begin... this case was so bizarre, I suspected everyone at some point who wasn't a lawyer, a judge, Gumshoe, or Maya. YES EVEN PEARL. I DON'T KNOW WHY I THINK SOME OF THESE THINGS, BUT I ASSUME THE GAME WILL EXPLAIN IT. Come on, this case was such a convoluted heap of WTF that I thought someone we trusted would be secretly evil! And plus I didn't even trust Bikini for some reason.


Spoiler: AJ
4-1: I found out on here that Kristoph was involved with something bad in 4-4, and this being a case 1, the murderer must be the witness (Olga), who happened to have spoiler art (I didn't look at it, but it was there), as well as her real self in the game! But then Kris started getting unnecessarily obnoxious...

4-2: Had to be Alita. I mean, before the game came out, I saw the NP screenshot of Stickler being perceived and somehow decided that he must be a murderer because no one should look that boring to talk to and be innocent. But someone here said Alita reminded them of Dahlia (actually, I probably saw a few people say that), and a suspicious post in a BBC game in response to my avatar... then finding out from a friend on AIM that Alita was somehow involved with Wocky having some kind of medical condition O_O Very worrying! But when Trucy pretended to be kidnapped, I thought they were doing another 2-4 for a few seconds, but I really wanted to save Wocky...

4-3: Really didn't want it to be Daryan. I was thinking Lamiroir because she just bothered me, especially with her boring, repetitive testimony that was the only thing Apollo could use (we get it, you saw the murder through the window, except then we find out a thousand hours into the trial that you didn't)... but I remembered the meaning of Daryan's Japanese name as soon as Klavier told us about the cocoon... :sadshoe:

4-4: That whole "Is the defendant guilty or innocent? Choose carefully!" weirdness at the beginning honestly made me kinda wonder about Vera... but that would make no sense, even for me, because why would she kill the only person she knew and trusted? Brushel was the only other one in the house, so he must've done it even though they said it was impossible... I knew Kristoph was the mastermind, though, but he was in jail, so how could he do anything? Obviously the game would have some sort of explanation.

4-4 Flashback: Why would Zak want to disappear without a verdict if he wasn't guilty? Valant was insanely suspicious, but he was still running around and obviously a good guy 7 years later, so it couldn't be him... maybe Kristoph was behind this, too! Well, he turned out to be behind something related to the case, at least. :P

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Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Oh wait, I apparently lied because I just remember there was one thing in Apollo Justice I didn't spoil myself on:

Spoiler: 4-4 flashback
I thought that Zak shot Magnifi. :C I was kinda biased towards Valant because he has albino bunnies and I liked it when he spun his stick. And his theme song.
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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these were my initial thoughts when halfway through the case

Spoiler: AA
1-1: Way way way too obvious
1-2: Bellboy or the man with April
1-3: Suicide or Cody or Oldbag
1-4: I knew the old man was Yanni Yogi but my initial thoughts were Lotta until I found out about :yogi:
1-5: Gant or Angel Starr


Spoiler: JFA
2-1: Obvious
2-2: Morgan Fey or Ini
2-3: Ben or Moe
2-4: Adrian or Oldbag


Spoiler: TaT
3-1: Dahlia
3-2: Not enough people in case so I had to say Atmey
3-3: Armstrong or Tigre
3-4: Dahlia
3-5: Dahlia (Whom I thought was Iris)




Spoiler: AJ
4-1: Olga
4-2: Alita
4-3: Lamiroir
4-4: Kristoph

Salazar: I'm sending my right hand after you.
Leon S Kennedy: Your right hand comes off?
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: AA
1-2: At first April, but then it becomes obvious.
1-3: I thought about it being Cody when he kept getting all upset about it, but then realized it's pretty much impossible.
1-4: I kept getting bad vibes about Larry. The whole idea of him being at the lake at the time of the murder didn't sit well with me.
1-5: Marshall and Angel at the beginning. I figured they could've teamed up or something.


Spoiler: JFA
2-2: Ini and Morgan were shady from the beginning.
2-3: I was spoiled towards the end, but before that Ben rubbed me the wrong way.
2-4: I knew in my gut it was Matt all along. There was always something weird about him to me. However, there were some points when I really thought it was Adrian.


Spoiler: T+T
3-2: Luke Atmey all the way.
3-3: Once I knew he pretended to be Phoenix, definitely Tigre. But I was really suspicious of Armstrong.
3-4: Dahlia. How could it not be Dahlia?
3-5: I unfortunately had this one spoiled for me. However, when Pearl couldn't channel Dahlia I thought that was because she was really still alive, not because she was already being channeled.
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: AA1
1-1: The intro gave it away.
1-2: The intro gave it away.
1-3: As soon as they first MENTIONED Dee, I suspected her.
1-4: I kinda knew that the killer was Yanni, but the fat that von Karma was the mastermind surprised me.
1-5: I honestly was clueless, but from the first moment Gant appeared I hated him, so I hoped that he was the killer so I could break him down. I was glad that it happened :)


Spoiler: AA2
2-1: The intro kinda gave it away.
2-2: There were so few people in that mansion. First I thought that it really was the possessed Maya. That was until Mia told me it was impossible. But then, I suspected Ini... or Mimi.
2-3: After the first investigation, I thought "Okay, all those people are too dumb to to it. Wait, on the map there's Acro's room. I haven't met Acro yet. He must be the killer!"
2-4: I thought it was Adrian, until I learned about the card. But even then, I wasn't sure that Matt did it. It was a real shock when he revealed his true self.

Spoiler: AA3
3-1: I was kinda spoiled that "Dahlia is the main villain of the game", so of course.
3-2: Again, the "too few people" problem. There really was noone else, but Atmey.
3-3: Those pictures showed that he killer has spiky hair. But even without it I would have been quite sure about Furio being the killer. And I figured out the part with Viola putting the poison in the coffee as soon as I first saw her for that brief moment.
3-4: I knew that Dahlia was evil, so of course.
3-5: Oh god I love this case! I figured out the part with Misty quite easily, but many different thoughts came to my mind about the killer's identity. I was as clueless as Phoenix and Edgeworth themselves. But in the end it was very obvious that it was Godot. He was the only man besides Phoenix, Larry, Edgey and Gumshoe in the case.

Spoiler: AA4
4-1: When Olga appeared, I suspected her like "another killer who pretends shyness and dumbness". But when Kristoph started to act strangely bashing Phoenix, I suspected him.
4-2: Why are there always so few characters in the -2 cases? There were only Stickler and Alita who came to my mind, but Stickler was soon proved mentally incapable of doing something like that.
4-3: I did suspect Daryan, even before Lamiroir said that she heard his voice. And Machi not being blind and speaking English... were quite easy to figure out (lol bracelet in Detention Center)
4-4: I was kinda spoiled about this one. But I thought that Kristoph would be like von Karma, sending someone else to kill Drew. But that reporter was just way too dumb, so I didn't really know.

Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: 3-5
This case confused the shit out of me since he did the Psyche-Lock check, but I was sure that Iris was Dahlia. I was hoping for a De Killer return :keiko:
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: AA1
1-3: I really thought it was Penny Nichols for some reason, that is until you met Dee, then I figured out it was her.
1-4: First I thought it was suicide, then I figured out it was The old boat caretaker, but I must be the only one to be stupid enough to assume the one who wrote the letter with the instructions was Grossberg xD I didn't guess it was von Karma until you got the option to say it.
1-5: I was at a loss and thought it was a GIANT conspiracy between pretty much everyone.


Spoiler: AA2
2-2 Figured out it was Ini pretty soon but never got that Morgan was involved for quite some time
2-3 I was sure it was Regina who wanted revenge because of the lion for the longest time
2-4 I had heard that there would be one client in the games that was guilty and the whole thing with Maya needing to be kidnapped for Phoenix to take the case was so suspicious I figured out this was it. I had never ever guessed that Matt would end up going :evil: though, which was a great shock


Spoiler: AA3
3-1 I had heard Dhalia was evil so I knew it was her when I saw her.
3-2 I thought Atmey was both the real thief and murderer.
3-3 I actually thought it was Viola xD yes even if you saw Tigre in the opening. I'm not too bright.
3-5 I got spoiled. Now let me go cry in a corner.


Spoiler: AA4
4-1 Thought it was Olga since even if I knew Kristoph was a bad guy I didn't think he'd go down in the first case.
4-2 Thought it was Eldoon at first but Alita became too suspicious when she didn't want to talk about how she met Wocky
4-3 Might have had some brief suspicion about Lamiroir but mainly Daryan
4-4 As fast as Kristoph was mentioned again it was pretty obvious.
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Otaku, #1 Machi fan, #2 Machi Fan

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Spoiler: Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
1-1: This was the hardest case in the series. I had no idea it was Sahwit.
1-2: Redd, as shown.
1-3: I actually suspected Oldbag, and then Sal. But then I met Dee.
1-4: I thought it was the Old Man right away. You know, a man with brain damage just living out there? It's Ace Attorney, so...
1-5: I was between Marshall and Gant on this one.

Spoiler: Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Justice For All
2-1: Wellington.
2-2: I knew it was Ini. No other suspects.
2-3: I suspected Acro when I noticed he was the one I hadn't met yet.
2-4: I thought it was Adrian until the end of Trial 1.

Spoiler: Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Trials and Tribulations
3-1: Again, obvious for me.
3-2: I had a feeling it was Atmey, yet I actually considered Dessie.
3-3: It was obvious. As I said to an "obvious killers" topic: Who else has spiky hair on the back other than Phoenix and Sonic?
3-4: Come on, we all knew it was Dahlia, right?
3-5: Iris, surprisingly. But then I was spoiled.

Spoiler: Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney
4-1: I thought it was Olga, until Phoenix asked Apollo who he thought it was.
4-2: I suspected Plum, but Alita just had the female, innocent murderer vibe.
4-3: Look, who didn't think it was Daryan? There were too many contradictions against Machi, and Lamiroir didn't seem right.
4-4: Brushel, actually. Until Kristoph's profile appeared out of nowhere in the MASON system.
Seven Years Ago: I thought Valant.

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ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOGANT
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Here I am! The tragic clown...

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THE AMOUNT OF SPOILER TAGS IN THIS TOPIC, IT IS OVERWHELMING.

Spoiler: PW:AA
1-1: Obvious.
1-2: Obviously the moment Redd White appeared I knew it was him, but up until then I was extremely suspicious of April May.
1-3: "CAN'T YOU SEE! IT WAS SO THE OLD WOMAN." I'm dumb. >_<
1-4: The "old man" was suspicious to me from the beginning. I never suspected Von Karma though...
1-5: I actually played JFA before AA, so when I started playing this I thought it was gonna be a "defendant is guilty" thing. But then It turned out so, so differently. Oh, Ganty.


Spoiler: PW:JFA
2-1: Also obvious. I LOVE YOU, WELLY!
2-2: Morgan, Morgan, Morgan. I loved Ini too much to suspect her. She's adorable. And the whole Ini/Mimi thing came out of nowhere, at least to me.
2-3: I was genuinely stumped this entire trial. When it turned out to be Acro I was kind of like ...what?.
2-4: I never suspected Adrian. I figured the murderer would be some guy that would come out of left field later in the trial. ...Which is sort of what happened. :enguard!:


Spoiler: PW:T&T
3-1: I was spoiled majorly for T&T and I knew all about Dahlia, so I saw through the I'M INNOCENT AND ADORABLE LOVE ME LOVE ME act right away. Though I kinda wanted to love her anyway. She's so damn good at pretending to be sweet.
3-2: I knew it had to be my Lukey. It couldn't really be anyone else unless it actually was Ron. On a side note, am I the only one who thought Desiree was MaskDeMasque? xD
3-3: I thought it was Violet up until the Psyche Lock bit and her crying, at which point I knew it was the Tiger.
3-4: Again, Dahlia Dahlia Dahlia.
3-5: I, in my tendency to suspect Dahlia in all things, figured Dahlia had something to do with it. I never suspected Godot though...


Spoiler: AJ:AA
4-1: I suspected Olga until Kristoph went up on the stand, and then I figured it had to be him, which was all kinds of awesome...
4-2: Alita, Alita, Alita. She gave off an overwhelming Dahlia vibe all along.
4-3: Like a lot of people, I suspected Lamiroir up until Daryan started being a total dickhead, if you'll pardon the pun...
4-4: Of course, Kristoph. It's always Kristoph. I did believe that Valant killed Magnifi, though...

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Krissy x Dahlia, Edgey x Feenie, and Klavi x Ema, for the epic win. <3
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: PW
1: Totaly thought it was Nick (JK)
2: White
3: Cody. Yep, though it was before I actually saw him. Then I was like, "He's way too short"
4: Manfred (I played JFA already)
5: Gant (spoiled)


Spoiler: JFA
1: Gumshoe! (JK((again)))
2: Mimi Miney. The second Hotti said "plastic surgery" I went: Ini = Mimi. I kept trying to tell Ini/Mimi that Ini had died in the accident in the psyche lock, and it kept hurting me. :edgy:
3: Durr. I just sorta went along with it. I couldn't make heads or tails of it at all.
4: Adrian. And De Killer. I didn't realize De Killer was the assassin until later.


Spoiler: T&T
1: Grossberg (nother jk)
2: Ron part 1 (proved innocent anyway. Delusional? Pfft!) Luke part 2
3: Xin Eohp (later revealed to be Furio Tiger)
4: Dahlia
5: Dahlia (hair died as Iris). I was like huh? -_- when I found out they were sisters, but I got godot when the time came.


Spoiler:
1: Payne (final Jk)
2: Rolled with it. No one seemed particularly suspicious
3: Same as 2, though I was slow to realize it was daryan til Lamior was like, "It daryan"
4: Investigation: errr... there was no one involved except brushel. And he was too obvious. Phoenix case, valant. And in the mason system I said, oh it all ties together. That means its Kristoph!


I'm starting to just stop trying to figure it out and just take it as I see it, cause the games tend to kick me if I figure it out too fast.
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操纵距离程度的能力

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Spoiler: 3-5
I firmly believed that Iris was Dahlia and she did it at first.;_;

Spoiler: 4-1
...I thought it was Nick.

You can call me whatever you want:3
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Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: 1-3, and all cases of 3
1-3: The fat guy.
1-4: Spoiled
1-5: Spoiled
3-1: Dahlia Hawthorne
3-2: The motorcycle chick
3-3: Violet
3-4: Dahlia Hawthorne, derp de DERP
3-5: Dahlia Hawthorne
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: 2-2 with a little of 3-5
I got spoiled on this one... OR SO I THOUGHT. When I first saw Pearl, I asked a friend who it was. They said "It's definately not a murderer", which implanted the idea into my head. Ever since I started this case, I always thought it would end with Pearl channeling someone's spirit, who was the killer. This happened in 3-5 for me as well.
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Good 'til the last drop.

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ive only played games 2 and 3 cuz i cant find number 1!!!!!

Spoiler: game 2
2-1: wellington duh
2-2: morgan, but not ini
2-3: ben, i thought the ringmaster was like hit with trilo or something
2-4: i knew it was matt the whole time for some reason

Spoiler: game 3
3-1: dahlia
3-2: i knew it was atmey from the beginning
3-3: tigre or armstrong
3-4: i thought it was terry until dahla showed up
3-5: i completely did not suspect godot, i thought dahlia was being chanelled by iris or something.

other than godot, it was easy to tell who the killer was in each case

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Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler:
1-1 Sahwit duh.
1-2 Redd duh
1-3 Dee
1-4 Yanni and manfred
1-5 Damon Gant
2-1 Wellington
2-2 Ini/Mimi
2-3 Acro once i met him before Ben I guess
2-4 Matt
3-1 Honestly, Payne I dunno it was my 1st
3-2 Luke
3-3 Tigre
3-4 "Mellisa"
3-5 Godot[spoiler=]

Honestly, I spoiled myself on almost every case.
PEARL DIES TONIGHT
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Elementry, my dear Watson.

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Spoiler: 1-2
I honestly thought it was April May :april:


Spoiler: 1-3
I thought it was Penny Nichols, which is pretty stupid, all things considered...


Spoiler: 1-4
Manfred von Karma :karma: ... I have no idea why.


Spoiler: 1-5
The cowboy :jake: ... I forget his name.


Spoiler: 2-2
Morgan. Definitely Morgan. :tea:


Spoiler: 2-3
It was the puppet!


Spoiler: 2-4
Adrian Andrews (how original)


Spoiler: 4-2 (just to skip a game...)
Guy Eldoon, for some reason that's beyond me...


Spoiler: 4-3
It was Daryan, which ended up being right, at least...


Spoiler: 4-4
In the Misham section, I thought it was Brushel. I thought Valant killed Magnifi, though.
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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I like a man with a big... vocabulary.

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Spoiler: PW:AA
1-1: Sahwit, obviously
1-2: I thought it was April at first..
1-3: Oldbag, heh
1-4: Lotta, psh.
1-5: Gant, he just had a bad vibe..


Spoiler: PW:JFA
2-1: Wellington
2-2: Morgan, she scared me
2-3: Honestly, I suspected Regina for a little...
2-4: Matt


Spoiler: PW:T&T
3-1: Dahlia
3-2: Luke, because Ron was too cute to kill anyone
3-3: Victor Kudo, until I met Tigre
3-4: I don't remember
3-5: Iris/Dahlia


Spoiler: AJ:AA
4-1: Olga Orly
4-2: Wocky... :bellboy:
4-3: Daryan
4-4: I don't remember

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I AM AMI

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I've mostly been pretty good at figuring out the real killer fairly early on...

Based on the premise that it's never your client, several only have one option - it rarely takes long to figure them out.

4-3, I'm impressed with myself, since I figured out who it was even before there was any clear evidence pointing to them.

Three exceptions...

1-5, I think I suspected everyone involved except Ema, Lana, and Nick...and I wasn't entirely sure about Ema. The real killer was my last guess.
Spoiler: my first wrong guess
Angel, I think was the first one who struck me as the real killer.


2-3 was just so far out there that there was no way in heck to figure it out until the case started winding down.
Spoiler: wrong again!
I suspected Ben and Trilo first.


3-5...I really had no idea until it all fell together... I mean, I knew
Spoiler: obvious spoiler is obvious
Dahlia was involved, but I thought, at first, she was the real killer...then I thought Misty'd done herself in to stop Dahlia...
then...I just got really confused. I didn't peg the real killer until just before the reveal.

And of course, if you've played the case, you know that in 2-4
Spoiler: maaajor spoiler
my guiding principle steered me wrong...stupid Matt

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Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: PWAA
3. Sal and Dee, as soon as Dee was introduced.
4. Manfred, as soon as it explained who he was.
5. Lana, Jake, and Gant. I thought they did it together.


Spoiler: JFA
2. Morgan, 'cause I played T&T first, and Ini 'cause I didn't like her :pearl:
3. Max.
4. Matt. I noticed immediately how the Psyce-lock loophole thing worked for him.


Spoiler: T&T
1. Dahlia.
2. Luke Atmey for both.
3. TIGRETIGRETIGRE
4. Dahlia.
5. Iris, then Dahlia, then Godot, but all before it was announced.


Spoiler: AJ
1. Olga. Knew Krissy was a killer, but I didn't think it would happen so soon.
2. Alita spoke to me.
3. Daryan.
4. Uh. Kristoph.
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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The_Metal wrote:
Spoiler: T&T
3-1) I thought it was Payne, knowing it was the end of the PW series, but not knowing he was a prosecutor in the next game.
3-2) I thought it was Ron. There were alot of factors that pointed to him.
3-3) I knew it was Furio, but before he was introduced, I suspected Armstrong. Like with Ron, there were alot of factors that pointed to him. (I was half right at least, he was an accomplice.)
3-4) I knew it was Dahlia.
3-5) I thought it was Maya or Bikini. Convicting Maya would have put a nice twist to the end of PW.


My instincts served me well in pretty well every case, but 3-5 knocked me around like no-one's business. Same as The Metal, I though the latter of his two suspects was an accomplicefor a long time... but then for who was ultimately 'guilty', it took me a while to even understand what had just happened.
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黒木香でゴザイマス。性の解放でゴザイマス。プ----ップ-------ッ…
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Spoiler: AA
1-1/1-2 You see the killer in the opening cutscene, so...

1-3 Dee Vasquez, because she looks like a "femme fatale".

1-4 I thought it was a suicide until von Karma said that it couldn't have been...then I opted for Yogi.

1-5 Lana, because she'd confessed to the crime.



Spoiler: JFA
2-1 Like 1-1/1-2, you see the killer in the opening cutscene (and he wouldn't attack Phoenix if he was innocent, right)

2-2 Maya, channelling Mimi's spirit.

2-3 Acro, since he has a room on the 3rd floor - I can't imagine anyone picking up the heavy bust, and lifting it so that they could clonk Russel with it.

2-4 Adrian Andrews, over Celeste's suicide note.


T&T to be done later...


Spoiler: AJ
4-1 Olga Orly, since all the other tutorial cases only have two witnesses, the second of which is the guilty party.

4-2 Wocky, because of his failed operation/temperament.

4-3 Daryan, because of Lamiror's accusations.

4-4 Kristoph, because he didn't appear in the whole first half of the case, despite being seen in the opening cinematic.
Re: Who did you think the killer was in each case? (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
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Ephidel wrote:
Spoiler: AA
1-3: Suicide or Cody or Oldbag



Spoiler: 1-3
Ah, I wasn't the only one...yeah, I remember getting the idea at one point that he had committed suicide. Can't remember where it came from though.
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