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Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
Gettin' Old!
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No doubt it's obvious that in Phoenix Wright games, most of the story is cases that will build up to an enevitable climactic case that will bind some of the facts and stuff altogether. I'm just wondering which one you think is better.
For me....I'm torn between 2-4 and 3-5. There was just so much intensity plus 2-4 actually had a good and bad ending in it! That gives it some points for me...then again 3-5 had some incredible dialogue in the ending.
Note: I'm not counting 1-5 as the climactic final case for AA, as awesome as it was I don't think it's canonical and it's not included in original versions of the game.
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Note: I'm not counting 1-5 as the climactic final case for AA, as awesome as it was I don't think it's canonical and it's not included in original versions of the game.
Seeing as it is referenced a couple of times in AJ, 1-5 is considered canon, I'm afraid.
As to what the ultimate final case is I'll get back to you when I finish 3-5 (on the final bit, thank goodness).
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Spoiler: Stupid Personal Reason
Spoiler: Better Actual Reason
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
Note: I'm not counting 1-5 as the climactic final case for AA, as awesome as it was I don't think it's canonical and it's not included in original versions of the game.
Seeing as it is referenced a couple of times in AJ, 1-5 is considered canon, I'm afraid.
As to what the ultimate final case is I'll get back to you when I finish 3-5 (on the final bit, thank goodness).
I thought that too but in the contradictions section of Court-records I think I read it that it was non-canonical so I was confused.
@Bad player how was it bad? It was so intense you know? How come stuff was spoiled for ya?
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Spoiler: 2-4 spoilers
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Spoiler: 3-5
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler: 2-4 spoilers
Don't forget the important part of the GS games. It's not important who did what, but how, in what order, and why. It's not enough that you know who the murderer is, you have to convince the Judge. It's just like a real trial, the Prosecutor and the Defense likely have a good idea who did what, but can they present that convincingly? That's where the game comes in. It's the journey not the destination that counts.
In any case, For my favorite final cases, I'd have to say that the final cases are all among my favorites, that's where the writing really excels. But if I had to choose, I'd still go with GS1-5. =D You can't deny that a three day investigation and trial is awesome. It's disappointing that system hasn't returned after GS1.
Also, a lot of people bash GS1-5 for it's plot but I think we're forgetting some of the awesome loops we were sent on.
Day 1 - Garage: you've got the right victim, but the wrong time and place.
Day 2 - Locker Room: You've got the wrong victim, but the right place, and the wrong time.
Day 3 - SL9: The preliminary bonus case that puts GS1-5 into motion.
Day 3 - Continued: Now we put the events of the Garage, the Locker Room, and SL9 together, in a symphony of consequences and parallel actions.
I thought that the fact that it was possible to write a script where you could take all those unrelated events and put them into a story where they all fit together was astounding.
When going back and playing GS1-4, GS2-4, GS3-5, and GS4-4, they all lack that harmony. The only ones that come close are GS3-5, and GS4-4 as they are complimented by the first cases in their games. But 4-4, I had problems with Phoenix stealing the game from Apollo, and GS3-5's conflict wasn't nearly as complicated as other final cases. GS2-4, however, gets bonus points for having something serious at stake. So in order I suppose...
GS1-5, GS2-4, GS1-4, GS4-4, and GS3-5
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Wooster wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler: 2-4 spoilers
Don't forget the important part of the GS games. It's not important who did what, but how, in what order, and why. It's not enough that you know who the murderer is, you have to convince the Judge. It's just like a real trial, the Prosecutor and the Defense likely have a good idea who did what, but can they present that convincingly? That's where the game comes in. It's the journey not the destination that counts.
Yes, but when 2 of the major twists of the case
Spoiler:
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Szabu wrote:
3-5, of course.
Spoiler: 3-5
I agree with Szabu
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Bad Player wrote:
Wooster wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler: 2-4 spoilers
Don't forget the important part of the GS games. It's not important who did what, but how, in what order, and why. It's not enough that you know who the murderer is, you have to convince the Judge. It's just like a real trial, the Prosecutor and the Defense likely have a good idea who did what, but can they present that convincingly? That's where the game comes in. It's the journey not the destination that counts.
Yes, but when 2 of the major twists of the case
Spoiler:
You're forgetting the major twist to that case. And that was to undo a Guilty verdict that YOU wrote. With that writing tool in place and a solid case against Adrian, if you're going to continue the story you're going to need more then a solid case to turn that story around.
Next is how the connections work. DeKiller on his own would never betray who was his client, and there was the contingency in place that even if he did cave in, he would be telling you the wrong person was guilty. You need to convince not only the court that Adrian was innocent and that it was Enguard who was guilty, but DeKiller as well.
Really, I find it much easier to appreciate the fallacies of a story if I understand why they're in there in the first place. When you understand that, then you realize that they weren't fallacies at all, but essential parts to tell the story.
Bump - bump - bump - bump - bump - bump - bump
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Part of the fun and excitement of PW is figuring out who the real criminal is. When they tell you in bad foreshadowing after 5 minutes, it kind of ruins the suspense, and the case becomes boring.
I thought undoing your own verdict was nice, and I understood De Killer's thought process and actions, but that wasn't what I was talking about.
I would have much preferred the case if they simply scrapped Gumshoe's lines about something not being right about the evidence and came up with a better way to convince Matt to let you be his attorney.
The only other thing I really didn't like about the case was that the 2nd day of court was boring to me, because I already knew what was going to happen (I was spoiled by the T&T cover) so it seemed like just a ton of boring stalling.
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Bad Player wrote:
(I was spoiled by the T&T cover)
You know, the T&T cover also shows Mia, who we already know is dead, so showing Maya on the cover isn't exactly "proof" that she'd be alive in GS3. She could have just as easily been featured in flashback cases (like Mia), or even been dead and channeled by Pearl.
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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It's not like assuming she's alive because she's on the boxart is a stretch.Plus, Young Mia is on the boxart, while regular Maya is on the boxart.
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Spoiler:
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Spoiler:
And defense attorney!Edgeworth, of course.
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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DominicanZero wrote:
3-5, by far. Nothing beats falling off a burning bridge into killer rapids for the one you care about the most. Plus, having the real perpetrator in front of you for the entire game and not know it, only for that fact to come back and bite your ass at the end of the game is freaking awesome.
1-4 had to be awesome with having the real killer in front of you but what about your confrontation in the evidence room with
Spoiler:
However, 3-5 is a front runner for my favorite case. It just was such a good end for Phoenix Wright's full length adventure. 2-4 is also good with having an seemingly unassuming defendant.
I think 1-4 and 3-5 are top contenders for the best end cases. 1-5 is also up there, but that is canon, but still amazing.
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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1-5 gets special mention for its complexity as well as its ruthless villain.
But all the bad-guys in the PW world are pretty ruthless.
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Spoiler: SPOILERS ONOZ
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Bad Player wrote:
I wasn't thinking too much into it. It's not like assuming she's alive because she's on the boxart is a stretch.
Plus, Young Mia is on the boxart, while regular Maya is on the boxart.
It's not like assuming she's alive because she's on the boxart is a stretch.Plus, Young Mia is on the boxart, while regular Maya is on the boxart.
I don't know about you, but at first glance, having a zipped up sweater wouldn't instantly fool me, especially when I just want to tear into the box and get at the game.
Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5), Rise from the Ashes (1-5), Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4), and 2-4.
3-5 just seemed to radiate with awesomeness, I don't know, I just find myself playing it again and again. Also playable Edgeworth causes many squees of delight.
1-5 lured me in with the science, hooked me with the interesting characters, and took me for a ride with all the plot-twists and fun. And it was the first case where you actually had to fight the law to win.
1-4 really wrapped up all the events that were happening throughout the first game. It gave you a big backstory, and it was an Edgeworth centric case, so it was pretty good in general. 1-5 topped it in fun and 3-5 topped it in Edgeworth, though.
2-4 just didn't seem like a final case to me. I mean, yeah it had the big danger, and yeah it was long, but the other cases pulled the game together and just offered a funner experience altogether. The love square was kind of annoying too.
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Alright fine, judge both 1-4, 1-5 as final cases if you like both are good.
And Bad Player just because on the long odd shot that you unfortunately had the game ruined out of shere chance doesn't mean the case sucked it's just an unfortunate shot.
Still come on for 2-4 here:
Spoiler:
I was totally terrified that I actually stopped pushing at that point.
Plus at one point they indicated that
Spoiler:
Furthermore they gave you the choice of guilty or not guilty for once....and it could have negative consequences on your ending.
The challenge of ONE piece of evidence to ONE witness and ONE chance drove me nuts.
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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That said, I don't consider it the "ultimate" final case. I actually agree that, no matter how much I came to love the characters during the case, there was no sense of cohesion with the rest of the game. I'd give the title of best final case to 1-4.
Spoiler: 1-4
I didn't enjoy 1-5 at all. It felt tacked on to me and there seemed to be too much unnecessary wandering back and forth. The story and characters didn't capture me, either. Obviously, that's not true for everyone, so it's only my opinion and experience which places 1-5 so low on my list.
3-5, again, gets a low rating from me just because of my opinion. I worked out the solution early and was frustrated that I couldn't get my point across sooner. The final reveal was disappointing, because it was exactly what I was expecting, with one or two points I missed because they didn't make sense to me even when explained.
Last edited by ToastButler on Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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(Witty Name Here) wrote:
...Well, shit then. I'm the only person who hated 3-5.
you're not the only one, I didn't especially like it either.
Spoiler: reasoning
It is good I'll agree, but I do find it overrated to a certain degree.
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Bad Player wrote:
(I was spoiled by the T&T cover)
Wasn't it the same for Edgeworth, I mean he was on the cover of JFA.
Not as if I thought even for a second that he'd be dead, but that's even more spoilerish, don't you think?
But a lot of other (awesome) cases spoiled themselves, too, like 3-4.
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
And Bad Player just because on the long odd shot that you unfortunately had the game ruined out of shere chance doesn't mean the case sucked it's just an unfortunate shot.
It's not a "long odd shot" or by sheer chance when I was spoilered by mandatory dialogue in the game itself.
And yes, a case does suck when it uses bad foreshadowing to ruin major plot twists and has an entire day of court of just stalling.
Szabu wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
(I was spoiled by the T&T cover)
Wasn't it the same for Edgeworth, I mean he was on the cover of JFA.
No. They didn't go around screaming "Maya is dead!" for an entire game.
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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yes 3-5 was great and all and Edgeworth was epic and all..but I think they tacked to much onto Phoenix's investigation that it started to feel gimmicky..a trial to break the pace would have been nice and considering it IS the epic finale to the series it should have the 3-trial parter rather than the usual to..yes it was epic but it was only edgeworth's trial that made my heart race..mainly cos' of Larry's sketch perhaps? and the ending gave the feeling their own lil' world is back to normal...but just not as satisfying..1-5 does not meet this criteria due to strong links of continuity to 2-4 as well..I must admit that the Killer here was a good twist..I did'nt see that coming at all..
But if you mean fave Finale case..1-5..1-5 is my second fave case of all time..very close to first..it's good to spread around there trails..while it's paced at a manageable tempo..it never loses its beat
and it introduced forscenics in a way that was'nt overdone but was like the sweet sprinkling of sugar over the top..and it gives your the feeling gradually reaching a climax only to find it working against you..Spoiler:
okay..i did'nt find Jake that interesting but he brought flavour to the palate of PW characters we have and I enjoyed it in that sense as well..It builds up development on edgeworth and phoenix as well which links better to Spoiler:
I could go on about it but I bet you think I should stop..
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Spoiler: 4-4
Although 1-4 was OK, Edgeworth was a bit too emo for my liking..
So 2-4 it is!
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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I CAN'T DECIDE. D:
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Don't forget that unlike 1-3, 1-4 and 1-5, here it isn't just investigating a murder that happened, but the events actively go on, with searching for Maya, building the bridge, unlocking the locks.
And these events work like this, with one more day, not so much.
Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Anna Cassidy wrote:
For me, it's a tie between 2-4 and 3-5. I thought 2-4 was a better case, personally, but the ending of 3-5 made me cry, so it earns bonus points for that.
I CAN'T DECIDE. D:
I CAN'T DECIDE. D:
Thats where I'm at...though I didn't cry at the end of 3-5 I was still like WTH?! at Godot's emotions in it, it was very moving and I liked how Franny was seemingly more affectionate in it (she introduced Gumshoe to the affectionate whipping...its like a hug...with pain).
Still 4-4 was never big with me because Ninja Monkey was right....especially with the percieving moment where it was a completely obvious spot. They shoulda made his hair twitch or something, Brushel was at least a challenge....I expected more from the final boss really. Plus we never find out whats behind his Psych locks which was a real let down for me....though I didn't object to Phoenix's return but then again I always found Apollo somewhat disappointing in comparison.
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Re: Whats the ultimate FINAL case?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Anna Cassidy wrote:
For me, it's a tie between 2-4 and 3-5. I thought 2-4 was a better case, personally, but the ending of 3-5 made me cry, so it earns bonus points for that.
I CAN'T DECIDE. D:
I CAN'T DECIDE. D:
Thats where I'm at...though I didn't cry at the end of 3-5 I was still like WTH?! at Godot's emotions in it, it was very moving and I liked how Franny was seemingly more affectionate in it (she introduced Gumshoe to the affectionate whipping...its like a hug...with pain).
Still 4-4 was never big with me because Ninja Monkey was right....especially with the percieving moment where it was a completely obvious spot. They shoulda made his hair twitch or something, Brushel was at least a challenge....I expected more from the final boss really. Plus we never find out whats behind his Psych locks which was a real let down for me....though I didn't object to Phoenix's return but then again I always found Apollo somewhat disappointing in comparison.
I think Phoenix is comperable to Apollo because Phoenix relies on his mental skills in court and not skills of perceiving. The only time Phoenix uses something like perceiving lies is when he uses to Magatama, but I think Apollo uses the bracelet to make the game easier for new comers to the series.
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