Re: Alternate Timeline?
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
Crowley wrote:
No, "Only my ruby-quartz visor can contain my optic blasts!" is the worst ever. 
I fight for my friends!
..Well played, well played.
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Re: Alternate Timeline?
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icer wrote:
I am wondering if GK will accidentally or otherwise impose an 'alternate timeline.' Edgeworth seems to be back in.. whatever city they live in, for at least part of the game... also note that in most promotional materials we see Lawyer Phoenix, not Hobo Phoenix, these days, even alongside Apollo, like that famous picture from the recent concert. Are they going to market Lawyer! Phoenix and his trilogy as some kind of separate property and forget Hobo! Phoenix happened in terms of marketing? DISCUSS.
I've been wondering myself about when in the timeline GK takes place; it'll be interesting to see what they've come up with. As for the promo materials, I think it's just as likely that Lawyer Phoenix is still more recognizable and marketable, and/or the artists may also simply enjoy drawing him that way more than drawing Hobo Nick. Who can say? Particularly in the case of the concert art, I think they merely wanted to showcase the defense attorneys and main prosecutors of both eras, seeing as the concert was going to feature music from both eras.
In all honesty, I doubt that they are going to start some alternate timeline; I never expected them to, so I can hardly call myself disappointed. I'm still not exactly happy with the way they ruined Phoenix's life, make no mistake, but I hold no illusions about this unhappiness magically erasing that it did get written that way.
(I do think that Apollo Justice, as a game, doesn't stack up as well in the character development department against the first part of the Phoenix trilogy. Just that first game alone - I don't bring JFA or T&T into it, that's unfairly lopsided. Edgeworth alone is far more developed in AA than anyone introduced in AJ.)
Re: Alternate Timeline?
Overruled?
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Wooster wrote:
DarkWobbuffet, either get a better attitude or buzz off this topic. It's possible to passionately hate something and yet also understand and accept why other people would actually like it.
Ugh, yeah, sorry about that. I went out of line there. I was a little irritable yesterday after coming home from getting my arm repacked to treat a staff infection. It is not fun, pain is very not fun.
icer wrote:
Also, Apollo says "Justice has arrived."
That sounds way better then "Here comes Justice". Still cheesey, but way better.
Quote:
I fight for my friends!
Oh yeah, I forgot about the true winner of the Cheese Quote award.
Anyway, back to the original topic, as I think I strayed so far off the point I landed in Tasmania
I dunno really what to say about the idea of splitting the timeline. There's a part of me that would hate to see a plot and character-dependant game series like this get hacked apart into different continuities, but in the case of AA4, but I moreso hate it when a game basically takes everything I loved about the first few titles and throws it off a cliff.
Quote:
I'm still not exactly happy with the way they ruined Phoenix's life, make no mistake, but I hold no illusions about this unhappiness magically erasing that it did get written that way.
Agree'd. As much as I'd love for them to noncanonize AA4 from the original trilogy, I know the writers have too much pride not to. Kind of like how George Lucas keeps force feeding us new Star Wars prequels that have ruined the series for most fans of the original trilogy. (I know quite a few people who loved the original Star Wars movies but the avalanche of unneeded prequels and TV series have ruined it for them)
Re: Alternate Timeline?
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It's the fact that the press, and a majority of the Western fanbase love it. If anything, Europe loves AJ the most. To decanonise it because of a vocal, yes smaller part of the fanbase is a bit mad.
Re: Alternate Timeline?
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Gerkuman wrote:
It's not pride that's stopping them doing it.
It's the fact that the press, and a majority of the Western fanbase love it. If anything, Europe loves AJ the most. To decanonise it because of a vocal, yes smaller part of the fanbase is a bit mad.
It's the fact that the press, and a majority of the Western fanbase love it. If anything, Europe loves AJ the most. To decanonise it because of a vocal, yes smaller part of the fanbase is a bit mad.
Is it though? A significant proportion of Western fanbase were upset over various connotations of GS4, but a lot of them wouldn't be posting here or elsewhere because a) they've probably moved onto other interests or choose not to think about the AA4 arc at all b) if other people liked AJ, they don't want to spoil their fun by complaining so they keep their opinions to themselves c)they never frequented these forums or similar places in the first place. d) people who really hated it probably left the 'fanbase' entirely.
We don't have any actual figures to determine a 'majority'. If Europe, indeed, does 'love AJ the most' (not sure if there's any actual data to support that kind of statement) then I'd suggest it's partially due to them not bothering to properly complete the Phoenix trilogy by releasing PW3 until ages later. (Did they do this on purpose?) Because a lot of people don't like AA4 because it ruins the relatively nice resolution of 3-5.
Anyway, I'll say it again. I think GS4 in Japan was supposed to be aimed at a different, new target market than the trilogy, though they hoped players of the old arc would also get on board, but then Capcom demands that Phoenix is returned to ensure that fans of the old trilogy will play it, and it becomes an unlikely follow-up to the old arc rather than a totally separate new arc. And if instead of being a totally separate new arc it manages to damage many of the reasons people enjoyed the old arc or be inferior in many elements people liked in the old arc, then some people will not like it.
An 'alternate' timeline wouldn't decanonise it, it would make it some kind of alternate reality. I'd prefer they just patched up Phoenix's story, possibly in spin-offs, though, to make it a more palatable follow-up of his trilogy.
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Re: Alternate Timeline?
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Re: Alternate Timeline?
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icer wrote:
We don't have any actual figures to determine a 'majority'.
In Japan, GS4 sold more than any other GS game released. I think it might have been more than the others combined...? Not sure about that figure, but it was a lot! It definitely sold the best, and has gotten the most merchandise, though apparently the magazine art released aftewards wasn't popular enough for them to continue it.
As for CR's fanbase, which is relatively global, this poll was conducted about 2 weeks after the game came out:
Quote:
Apollo Justice!!! Did you beat it?
Still working on it! (36%)
Beat it, LOVED it! (27%)
Didn't get a copy yet 1,291 (20%)
Beat it, thought it was good 730 (11%)
Beat it, thought it was average 171 (3%)
Not interested in getting it at all 98 (1%)
Beat it, it SUCKED 54 (1%)
Beat it, didn't like it 41 (1%)
Still working on it! (36%)
Beat it, LOVED it! (27%)
Didn't get a copy yet 1,291 (20%)
Beat it, thought it was good 730 (11%)
Beat it, thought it was average 171 (3%)
Not interested in getting it at all 98 (1%)
Beat it, it SUCKED 54 (1%)
Beat it, didn't like it 41 (1%)
So if you combine the positive reactions (35%) it definitely outweighs the average and negative reactions (6%), and being close to the release, this would have been from the most interested and invested fans. The fans who did not like AJ are definitely louder than those that did. But I think the more casual fans of the series, who don't participate a lot in fandom, liked it just fine. I've even talked to a few that like it the best.
And even on the subject of Klavier specifically, who is undoubtedly a figure of some controversy in the active parts of fandom, the positive reactions still outweighed the negative:
Quote:
What do you think of new prosecutor Klavier Gavin?
(3/3/08 - 3/8/08)
Positive:
I enjoyed his rock band theme: 1,840 (15%)
Totally made of win: 1,768 (14%)
Love his design. Don't change a thing! 1,172 (10%)
A refreshing new opponent: 1,076 (9%)
I like him fine: 1,101 (9%)
I hope he's back in GS5: 1,034 (8%)
Neutral:
I hope he appears in GS5 but not as main prosecutor: 1,652 (13%)
He's about average: 437 (4%)
No opinion / Can't agree with your silly tickies: 149 (1%)
Negative:
Kind of boring to play against: 806 (7%)
His gimmicks got old / I never liked them: 318 (3%)
Didn't like him that much: 267 (2%)
Unicorn hair's gotta go! 252 (2%)
I hope he doesn't come back in GS5: 228 (2%)
Ugh. Just ugh! 192 (2%)
(3/3/08 - 3/8/08)
Positive:
I enjoyed his rock band theme: 1,840 (15%)
Totally made of win: 1,768 (14%)
Love his design. Don't change a thing! 1,172 (10%)
A refreshing new opponent: 1,076 (9%)
I like him fine: 1,101 (9%)
I hope he's back in GS5: 1,034 (8%)
Neutral:
I hope he appears in GS5 but not as main prosecutor: 1,652 (13%)
He's about average: 437 (4%)
No opinion / Can't agree with your silly tickies: 149 (1%)
Negative:
Kind of boring to play against: 806 (7%)
His gimmicks got old / I never liked them: 318 (3%)
Didn't like him that much: 267 (2%)
Unicorn hair's gotta go! 252 (2%)
I hope he doesn't come back in GS5: 228 (2%)
Ugh. Just ugh! 192 (2%)
Of course, a different poll showed that the majority of people still thought Phoenix was better than Apollo, but in terms of the game overall, I haven't talked to anyone who said they were leaving fandom because of it. Of course, if they left the fandom they wouldn't have any reason to talk to me... But these numbers at least, gathered here on CR, contradict the notion that "Most people didn't like AJ."
Re: Alternate Timeline?
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Croik wrote:
icer wrote:
We don't have any actual figures to determine a 'majority'.
In Japan, GS4 sold more than any other GS game released. I think it might have been more than the others combined...? Not sure about that figure, but it was a lot! It definitely sold the best, and has gotten the most merchandise, though apparently the magazine art released aftewards wasn't popular enough for them to continue it.
As for CR's fanbase, which is relatively global, this poll was conducted about 2 weeks after the game came out:
Quote:
Apollo Justice!!! Did you beat it?
Still working on it! (36%)
Beat it, LOVED it! (27%)
Didn't get a copy yet 1,291 (20%)
Beat it, thought it was good 730 (11%)
Beat it, thought it was average 171 (3%)
Not interested in getting it at all 98 (1%)
Beat it, it SUCKED 54 (1%)
Beat it, didn't like it 41 (1%)
Still working on it! (36%)
Beat it, LOVED it! (27%)
Didn't get a copy yet 1,291 (20%)
Beat it, thought it was good 730 (11%)
Beat it, thought it was average 171 (3%)
Not interested in getting it at all 98 (1%)
Beat it, it SUCKED 54 (1%)
Beat it, didn't like it 41 (1%)
So if you combine the positive reactions (35%) it definitely outweighs the average and negative reactions (6%), and being close to the release, this would have been from the most interested and invested fans. The fans who did not like AJ are definitely louder than those that did. But I think the more casual fans of the series, who don't participate a lot in fandom, liked it just fine. I've even talked to a few that like it the best.
And even on the subject of Klavier specifically, who is undoubtedly a figure of some controversy in the active parts of fandom, the positive reactions still outweighed the negative:
Quote:
What do you think of new prosecutor Klavier Gavin?
(3/3/08 - 3/8/08)
Positive:
I enjoyed his rock band theme: 1,840 (15%)
Totally made of win: 1,768 (14%)
Love his design. Don't change a thing! 1,172 (10%)
A refreshing new opponent: 1,076 (9%)
I like him fine: 1,101 (9%)
I hope he's back in GS5: 1,034 (8%)
Neutral:
I hope he appears in GS5 but not as main prosecutor: 1,652 (13%)
He's about average: 437 (4%)
No opinion / Can't agree with your silly tickies: 149 (1%)
Negative:
Kind of boring to play against: 806 (7%)
His gimmicks got old / I never liked them: 318 (3%)
Didn't like him that much: 267 (2%)
Unicorn hair's gotta go! 252 (2%)
I hope he doesn't come back in GS5: 228 (2%)
Ugh. Just ugh! 192 (2%)
(3/3/08 - 3/8/08)
Positive:
I enjoyed his rock band theme: 1,840 (15%)
Totally made of win: 1,768 (14%)
Love his design. Don't change a thing! 1,172 (10%)
A refreshing new opponent: 1,076 (9%)
I like him fine: 1,101 (9%)
I hope he's back in GS5: 1,034 (8%)
Neutral:
I hope he appears in GS5 but not as main prosecutor: 1,652 (13%)
He's about average: 437 (4%)
No opinion / Can't agree with your silly tickies: 149 (1%)
Negative:
Kind of boring to play against: 806 (7%)
His gimmicks got old / I never liked them: 318 (3%)
Didn't like him that much: 267 (2%)
Unicorn hair's gotta go! 252 (2%)
I hope he doesn't come back in GS5: 228 (2%)
Ugh. Just ugh! 192 (2%)
Of course, a different poll showed that the majority of people still thought Phoenix was better than Apollo, but in terms of the game overall, I haven't talked to anyone who said they were leaving fandom because of it. Of course, if they left the fandom they wouldn't have any reason to talk to me... But these numbers at least, gathered here on CR, contradict the notion that "Most people didn't like AJ."
In my experience, most of the people don't like the idea of AJ, therefore have not played it. :| That's how I was for months (I was mostly emo over the fact that Phoenix lost his badge), but when I finally decided to play it I loved it, almost more than the original games.
[/two cents]
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Re: Alternate Timeline?
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Spoiler: Apollo Justice 1-4
But I'd love to see an Apollo Justice 2 too..
He's not as great as Feenie, but I like him (:
Re: Alternate Timeline?
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Like in my case, AJ had quite a few things that annoyed me about it, and I wouldn't say it was on the same level as the others, but did I still like it? Hell yeah!
Honestly I can't say anything for everyone else, but the % of people who liked AJ does not prove it was liked MORE then the other games, unless you have other polls for the other games.
Also there was a similar thing with Gavin for me, where I really dislike the guy, but I can't fault him for having one of the best themes in the series, but somehow I think I'm in a minority on that (and even then he still has 50% positive)...
Re: Alternate Timeline?
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Re: Alternate Timeline?
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Re: Alternate Timeline?
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: Look, you don't want to do this, me!
: ...what? : Look, trust you, if you do this, you'll be lower than Edgeworth. : ...riiiight. : An imperfect record and dignity is better than a perfect one and none. Trust me... I know. I'm you. : ...what?!? : I've come from the future to stop you from forging the evidence. : ...but if you're here, that means I do anyway. If I don't, that means you have no reason to come back, which means you don't, which means I do, which means you come back, and try to get me not to, but you're existence means I do, which means you have no reason to come back... : ... OBJECTION!XD
Re: Alternate Timeline?
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Re: Alternate Timeline?
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DarknessLord wrote:
One thing about that poll, Croik is that the question was asking how did you like Apollo Justice, not how it stacked up among your favorites in the series.
Like in my case, AJ had quite a few things that annoyed me about it, and I wouldn't say it was on the same level as the others, but did I still like it? Hell yeah!
Honestly I can't say anything for everyone else, but the % of people who liked AJ does not prove it was liked MORE then the other games, unless you have other polls for the other games.
Like in my case, AJ had quite a few things that annoyed me about it, and I wouldn't say it was on the same level as the others, but did I still like it? Hell yeah!
Honestly I can't say anything for everyone else, but the % of people who liked AJ does not prove it was liked MORE then the other games, unless you have other polls for the other games.
Late response is late~
The issue I was trying to disprove is the fandom notion of "More people disliked AJ than liked it." I just don't think that's true, and the only polls I have on the subject agree. Whether or not the majority of people like AJ more than PW, I don't know because I haven't done a poll on it. And even if we did do a poll like that, PW would probably win if only because Phoenix has been around longer and has more games. It won't be a truly fair comparison until Apollo's had his chance.
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speaking for myself, i know that i liked it a lot more right after i beat it than i do now, or even two months afterward
Re: Alternate Timeline?
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I loved Phoenix from the start - especially his snarky little "blue text" comments. He's an interesting character and I like who he is. Apollo was just sorta there. He didn't do anything for me. He seemed to let things happen to him rather than jumping in and taking over the game for himself. Not to mention how they ruined Phoenix in the course of the story - I'd have been happier if they left Phoenix out altogether than to do what they did to him.
As far as cases go? I almost quit playing AJ because of the frikkin Guitar's Serenade. I never wanted to quit any of the GS1, 2, or 3 cases. If anything, I just didn't want those games to end because I was enjoying them. I did like the last case in AJ but only because we got to see Nick in action again.
And I don't know that the AJ poll on the site was entirely accurate. A lot of people are late to the party and didn't play the game when it first came out. I wonder how the results would look if the same poll was conducted today?
I don't count AJ as canon unless they really do something good with a sequel. I feel like a Star Wars fan after Episode 1 was released.
Re: Alternate Timeline?
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Rose wrote:
I could really not care less about Apollo. He seems like a weak character compared to Phoenix, and his prosecution opponent was a pushover. C'mon, Phoenix took on Manfred in his first year, along with his two proteges within his first two years. Apollo... well, he worked with a full-time rockstar, part-time prosecutor who didn't seem to care much about winning. And seriously, you play as a guy whose last name is Justice? Sounds a little... trite.
I loved Phoenix from the start - especially his snarky little "blue text" comments. He's an interesting character and I like who he is. Apollo was just sorta there. He didn't do anything for me. He seemed to let things happen to him rather than jumping in and taking over the game for himself. Not to mention how they ruined Phoenix in the course of the story - I'd have been happier if they left Phoenix out altogether than to do what they did to him.
As far as cases go? I almost quit playing AJ because of the frikkin Guitar's Serenade. I never wanted to quit any of the GS1, 2, or 3 cases. If anything, I just didn't want those games to end because I was enjoying them. I did like the last case in AJ but only because we got to see Nick in action again.
And I don't know that the AJ poll on the site was entirely accurate. A lot of people are late to the party and didn't play the game when it first came out. I wonder how the results would look if the same poll was conducted today?
I don't count AJ as canon unless they really do something good with a sequel. I feel like a Star Wars fan after Episode 1 was released.
I loved Phoenix from the start - especially his snarky little "blue text" comments. He's an interesting character and I like who he is. Apollo was just sorta there. He didn't do anything for me. He seemed to let things happen to him rather than jumping in and taking over the game for himself. Not to mention how they ruined Phoenix in the course of the story - I'd have been happier if they left Phoenix out altogether than to do what they did to him.
As far as cases go? I almost quit playing AJ because of the frikkin Guitar's Serenade. I never wanted to quit any of the GS1, 2, or 3 cases. If anything, I just didn't want those games to end because I was enjoying them. I did like the last case in AJ but only because we got to see Nick in action again.
And I don't know that the AJ poll on the site was entirely accurate. A lot of people are late to the party and didn't play the game when it first came out. I wonder how the results would look if the same poll was conducted today?
I don't count AJ as canon unless they really do something good with a sequel. I feel like a Star Wars fan after Episode 1 was released.
Adding to that, the attorney/prosecutor relationship in AJ wasn't that great either. In AJ, Apollo and Klavier are pretty much friends. they be helpin each other, and Klavier dont seem professional. In PW, every prosecutor hated Nick's guts. They wanted either to win or get revenge but at least they acted like they were pros. PW had more stuff to look forward to, always interesting, never got dull. AJ was kinda play the game a little then fall asleep. I aint kidding. It was very subtle.
Also in AJ, Trucy was practically stupid. Related everything to magic, didnt understand much, doesnt see the wrong in telling people to come see her panties. I mean WTF? Maya was a better partner. At least she knew what a trial was (exaggeration).
I could go on but Im tired and cant think of anything else. but as Rose said, AJ really needs to get something GOOD in the sequel.
Re: Alternate Timeline?
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Re: Alternate Timeline?
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