Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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hbdragon88 wrote:
Maybe that's true, WA, but this is Phoenix Wright and we come to expect very clean motives for murder, and if they're not clean and neat at all, to have a great and grand justification for why it was done.
That's about all I can think of in self-defense cases; I think every other muder has a very strong motive.
Spoiler: All cases in the PW series
That's about all I can think of in self-defense cases; I think every other muder has a very strong motive.
I don't "expect" a clear motive. I just want something fresh and interesting. Acro was a perfect sympathetic villain because we all do stupid things sometimes. I don't want every case to be cut-and-dry, "this is why this guy is bad and this is why you should care". I'm sick of these cookie-cutter good vs evil showdowns. Real life just isn't like that.
If all the JFA cases were as polarizing like 2-4, it would make 2-4 much less unique (and Edgeworth's "find out what it means to be a defense attorney" crap almost ruined 2-4 for me. Almost.) We don't need the game to spell out everything for us, and I certainly don't want them to.hbdragon88 wrote:
And if 2-3 was all about being more realistic, they certainly shot themselves in the foot with the insane cloak-bust theory that makes 3-5 look about as realistic as 1-1.
I said Acro was a believable character, I didn't say the case was realistic. I don't want a 6-month law simulation. I just want sympathetic characters. The circus felt like a real, dysfunctional family. That's why I loved it. The characters in 2-3 and 2-4 carried those cases because they were so multi-dimensional. For the opposite, let's use 1-1 as an example. The murderer in that case killed someone because they walked on him while he was burglarizing her apartment. That's realistic; it happens all the time. But Frank Sahwit is the most inanely bland character to have ever drawn breath, which pretty much killed the case. When it comes right down to it, the majority of the cases are carried by the characters.
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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hbdragon88 wrote:
Maybe that's true, WA, but this is Phoenix Wright and we come to expect very clean motives for murder, and if they're not clean and neat at all, to have a great and grand justification for why it was done.
That's about all I can think of in self-defense cases; I think every other muder has a very strong motive.
And if 2-3 was all about being more realistic, they certainly shot themselves in the foot with the insane cloak-bust theory that makes 3-5 look about as realistic as 1-1.
Spoiler: All cases in the PW series
That's about all I can think of in self-defense cases; I think every other muder has a very strong motive.
And if 2-3 was all about being more realistic, they certainly shot themselves in the foot with the insane cloak-bust theory that makes 3-5 look about as realistic as 1-1.
But 1-1 is probably the most realistic case in the AA universe. There are plenty of stories about burgulars who turn into murders.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
hbdragon88 wrote:
And if 2-3 was all about being more realistic, they certainly shot themselves in the foot with the insane cloak-bust theory that makes 3-5 look about as realistic as 1-1.
But 1-1 is probably the most realistic case in the AA universe. There are plenty of stories about burgulars who turn into murders.
You're missing the point. I agree that 1-1 is very realistic. I was saying that the cloak-bust theory in 2-3 made 3-5, far and away really unrealistic, look as realistic as 1-1.
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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hbdragon88 wrote:
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
hbdragon88 wrote:
And if 2-3 was all about being more realistic, they certainly shot themselves in the foot with the insane cloak-bust theory that makes 3-5 look about as realistic as 1-1.
But 1-1 is probably the most realistic case in the AA universe. There are plenty of stories about burgulars who turn into murders.
You're missing the point. I agree that 1-1 is very realistic. I was saying that the cloak-bust theory in 2-3 made 3-5, far and away really unrealistic, look as realistic as 1-1.
Very true. While I can't ignore the possibility of that happening, it's very unlikely.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
IT'S OVER 9000!!1!
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like a beautiful disaster
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Panicakes wrote:
Regina is one of my favourite minor characters, but I seem to be the only one who likes her :C Why so much hate?
I really don't know....
Then again, I'm totally indiferrent with her, because she was raised on fantasy and non real things. Therefore, she knows no better.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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I liked Moe, and to a certain extent Acro, but I found the end of 2-3 to be kind of anti-climactic, and the whole outcome to the murder
Spoiler: 2-3 spoiler
Spoiler: GS4 spoilers
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Spoiler: 2-3
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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sanareth wrote:
Spoiler: 2-3
That part was a bit too coincidental for my liking as well.
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Bridge to the Turnabout
Farewell, My Turnabout
Turnabout Goodbyes (and DL-6)
Turnabout Beginnings
Rise from the Ashes (And SL-9)
The Stolen Turnabout
Reunion, and Turnabout
Turnabout Memories
Turnabout Samurai
Turnabout Sisters
The First Turnabout
Recipe for Turnabout
The Lost Turnabout
Turnabout Big Top
That's how much I hated case 2-3.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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I also changed my mind about Acro. I'm not so sure he qualifies as a "sympathetic" villain anymore. After all, he did plan to kill an innocent sixteen year old girl. And it's not like he did it "in a fit of anger". It was a carefully crafted murder plot. He didn't seem to show any remorse for wanting to kill Regina - he only felt guilty because he killed the Ringmaster instead. He also didn't have any problems with framing a colleague for the murder, and lied several times on the witness stand. If he was really sorry for what happened, he could have just confessed. But it's obvious he didn't want to get caught - he thought he could get away with everything.
So why do we like Acro? Because he looks nice, he seems like a nice person... but he didn't actually do anything to deserve being considered nice. If you only look at his actions, he's really more of a manipulative bastard. So what if he has a tragic backstory? What if he's in a wheelchair? Dahlia didn't have a happy childhood either.
Maybe Acro had everyone fooled, including the player. JFA's main message is that appearances can be deceiving (Ini, Engarde, Adrian, De Killer...). Acro used everyone's emotions to blind them from the truth. Using a wheelchair and crocodile tears, he tricked everyone into believing he was a victim in that case. His movations were purely selfish - all he wanted to do was to avoid spending his life in prison. And his plan apparently succeeded, as Edgeworth told Gumshoe not to be "too harsh on Acro". The difference between Engarde and Acro doesn't have anything to do with their motives. The difference is that Engarde was so proud of his own evilness that it was easier to see through him.
If you try replaying the case with that in mind, you'll see that, while it is probable that Acro was in fact intended as a "sympathetic villain", my explanation also works, which leaves room for doubt. Was it that they failed to make him sympathetic for lack or a proper motive, or that they succeeded at making him ambiguous and interesting?
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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The ending almost made me cry. ;_;
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
sanareth wrote:
Spoiler: 2-3
That part was a bit too coincidental for my liking as well.
I agree completely.
Also, the very very very end ruined it for me.
Spoiler: 2-3
Everything else was fine, tho. (Except Congratulations Everybody, Again! That is the worst piece of music in all of the PW games!)
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
Two more games coming up soon
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Argh. I can't stand this piece of music.
About the motive falling part, once again, I think my explanation makes it more acceptable.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Sad to say, I've left C-R. I may still occasionally come on, but, y'know...
I just lost interest, but, this is still an awesome site.
I'll live on through my sprites, I hope. And my major contributions to the Max fanclub. ^_^
Bye ;_; ^_^
I just lost interest, but, this is still an awesome site.
I'll live on through my sprites, I hope. And my major contributions to the Max fanclub. ^_^
Bye ;_; ^_^
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Ping' wrote:
About the motive falling part, once again, I think my explanation makes it more acceptable.
Eh, I don't really think so. It wasn't the motive per se, but the motive combined with the fact that in the end they say his motive will make sure he doesn't attempt murder again =\
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
Good 'til the last drop.
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No one has ever agreed with me on that!
Moe is hilarious, his song is catchy, and his animations were some of the most emotion-revealing of the whole series.
Great plot for a murder case, even if it didn't work out.
I really don't understand why people hate this case so much.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
Hetero sucks.
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FaFniR wrote:
Spoiler: GS4 spoilers
Spoiler: AJ
I do my best to find something positive in every case, so perhaps I'm being a bit too kind, but I really liked 2-3. I thought the characters were interesting enough, despite their irritating quirks. I think Regina's too cute to hate, even though I sometimes want to kick her in the face. :D
Spoiler: 2-3 I guess
Also, MAX. So fabulous! The fact that he calls Phoenix "sweetie" is an automatic win.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Spoiler: 2-3...
But anyway, I just loved this case to bits~!
Panicakes wrote:
Regina is one of my favourite minor characters, but I seem to be the only one who likes her :C Why so much hate?
Phantom Dream wrote:
YES IT WAS. WHAT ABOUT MAX? HE WAS THE WHOLE CASE. HIS HOTNESS COMBINED WITH HIS FABULOSITY MADE THE CASE HOT AND FABULOUS. AMIRITE?
SECONDED! URRITE. Seriously, even if he wasn't so super hot, I'd still think he was probably one of the best defendants out there, because he just seemed to be pretty positive and easy to work with all the time... even if he was arrogant. I hate the defendants who refuse to cooporate >_>.
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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But why does everyone hate Ben? He's the best character EVAH!
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Spoiler:
It'd be a better case if not for that.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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BBdoubleB wrote:
Here's my biggest problem with Big Top.
It'd be a better case if not for that.
Spoiler:
It'd be a better case if not for that.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
Where's Pikachu? ...I mean Wally!
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For a start Moe was completely not annoying. I think he was hilarious tbh, his jokes were pretty lame but that just made him funnier. Also, I think that alot of people fail to see past who he was as a charecter when you got past all those jokes, he really cared about alot of people at that circus and was clearly very good friends with the ringmaster, he gave us a lot of helpful insight into the relationships between the other charecters (E.g. Regina and Acro). He also told us about Bat and and the accident. My point is Moe was brilliant...I bet it's been done but if I could I'd probably start off a fan club for him!
Secondly, I liked how we slowly got to unravel what had happened "6 months ago", I found it a very interesting experience and this case was full of interesting charecters who were deeper and more developed than some from other cases (Except for that awful Ben the pervert, yuck!)
Sorry to all the people who liked Ben but seriously, he's 30, Regina's 16!!
Other good charecters were Moe, Max, Regina, Acro (though he was possibly the most irritating person EVER to cross-examine), and it has one other HUGELY redeeming quality in that the Edgeworth cutscene thingy was shown at the end! He looks pretty good in that picture and it even shows us he's not actually dead at all (even though we all knew that because he was in rising form the ashes).
To quote - "Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!"
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Spoiler: 2-3
At that point, there were so many awesome ways they could have taken it, but I was a bid sad that they went with the most realistic ending. Really, the ending was okay, but it didn't leave an impression as good as the rest of the case. I'm pretty sure other people thought the same thing, but I was imagining an ending where
Spoiler: 2-3
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Silverpaw wrote:
Spoiler: 2-3 I guess
Spoiler: 2-3
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Bad Player wrote:
Silverpaw wrote:
Spoiler: 2-3 I guess
Spoiler: 2-3
Spoiler: 2-3
Er... Bat was 30? 0_0 I just played that case, and I remember him being in his early 20s.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
Hetero sucks.
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Bad Player wrote:
...Bat is 22.
Quote:
Sorry to all the people who liked Ben but seriously, he's 30, Regina's 16!!
Oh crap, they said BEN. ^^; My bad.
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
...Hopefully someday... xD
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I agree with most of ones here.
Case had drama and everything, even though charrys can be bit annoying...
However, if ya try to understand them, It's easy.
Acro
- C'mon! He lost his lil'bro! What you think you would do and how would ya react?!
Still he is a really good person inside, as we saw. Gentle and nice.
Thinking like this made me like him a bit more...
Acros image is ruined by many people just because of the milk tears...
Regina
- Sure...She isn't Ms. Newton, but like Moe said...
The only world she knows is the sircus and that's why she thinks that's how everyone lives.
I can't understand why many peoples don't get that...It's simple if ya try...
+ She is only 16...
Grown like that and still young: Not surprising.
Ben & Trilo
- ...I'm not their biggest fan, but...I'll try... (I hate Trilo -_-')
Well...Suuuuuuuuure that bro isn't, like, 100% okay, but he has some good sides.
...Like...Well...He is...nah forget it...I've never liked Trilo and I never willl...Ben is OK.
Well...Not to make this completely nothing: I guess It's just his nature and the fct that his in love to Regina.
Moe
- ...I guess ya know already that I'm a fan ^^
Okay: You just have to like him in some way.
C'mon! Everybody hates him and his jokes, but he still does his best and keeps trying!
Still: He is also pretty wise person, eh? He tells those thing and watches out for Regina, so he can't be a total Butz.
+ His jokes are soooooooo bad that they make ya laugh ^^
Max
- I confess I didn't like that mamas boy at first, but you just grow to like him.
He realizes that his been an ass in the end, so at least his trying.
-------
Whew...It's hard to figur...I mean...TELL...something positive about everyone ^^
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
1000% Knight
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Zinle wrote:
Acro
- C'mon! He lost his lil'bro! What you think you would do and how would ya react?!
Still he is a really good person inside, as we saw. Gentle and nice.
- C'mon! He lost his lil'bro! What you think you would do and how would ya react?!
Still he is a really good person inside, as we saw. Gentle and nice.
I don't think you read this post:
Ping' wrote:
So why do we like Acro? Because he looks nice, he seems like a nice person... but he didn't actually do anything to deserve being considered nice. If you only look at his actions, he's really more of a manipulative bastard. So what if he has a tragic backstory? What if he's in a wheelchair? Dahlia didn't have a happy childhood either.
Also if you think murder is a legitimate reaction to losing a loved one, no offense, but I think you have some issues... >_>
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Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
...Hopefully someday... xD
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Ping' wrote:
So why do we like Acro? Because he looks nice, he seems like a nice person... but he didn't actually do anything to deserve being considered nice. If you only look at his actions, he's really more of a manipulative bastard. So what if he has a tragic backstory? What if he's in a wheelchair? Dahlia didn't have a happy childhood either.
Also if you think murder is a legitimate reaction to losing a loved one, no offense, but I think you have some issues... >_>[/quote]
1. I just thought it would be bit cruel to leave someone out...I hope I didn't...
2. True. I hardly read above posts. Only If I have time enough, but...Not that time (either) XD
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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ILoveMaxGalactica* wrote:
Panicakes wrote:
Regina is one of my favourite minor characters, but I seem to be the only one who likes her :C Why so much hate?
.
YES. Reggie is kinda cute, but she looks like she's six. Her personality, was "OMG! A computer? What's that?" or "Look, a tiger! Except I own one, so who cares?" And at one point if you present her profile (this is what made me hate her, mostly) she goes, "Alright!! I look so cute in this picture!! You think I'm cute, dont'cha dont'cha?" and it made her sound like a snobby brat. And, I don't even get how every man is attracted to her, she's not SO utterly cute and precious. She reminds me of Dahlia, looks-wise, because, they're cute. BUT Reggie is 16 (looks 6) Dollie is 20 (looks 7).
Sad to say, I've left C-R. I may still occasionally come on, but, y'know...
I just lost interest, but, this is still an awesome site.
I'll live on through my sprites, I hope. And my major contributions to the Max fanclub. ^_^
Bye ;_; ^_^
I just lost interest, but, this is still an awesome site.
I'll live on through my sprites, I hope. And my major contributions to the Max fanclub. ^_^
Bye ;_; ^_^
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
Fancase Maker
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Spoiler: 1-3 and 2-3
Still, I liked 2-3 much more than 2-2, because it's so delightfully weird, and Moe understands the theatricality of the court system better than any of the lawyers, and it inhabits its own universe of glorious moon logic.
Spoiler: 2-3
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Sad to say, I've left C-R. I may still occasionally come on, but, y'know...
I just lost interest, but, this is still an awesome site.
I'll live on through my sprites, I hope. And my major contributions to the Max fanclub. ^_^
Bye ;_; ^_^
I just lost interest, but, this is still an awesome site.
I'll live on through my sprites, I hope. And my major contributions to the Max fanclub. ^_^
Bye ;_; ^_^
Re: Turnabout Bigtop was f***in amazing!
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Or Ben...
Regina was cute, though...
But, I felt kind of bad for her, not only because she didn't know what she did, but because she was proposed to by some guy's wood... XD
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