GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers) : Kurain (GS2)

Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:57 am

Caelestis

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I'd like to add just one more thing.

Let's remember that De Killer was not really expecting to have his face be seen by others (except perhaps Maya, but his face was supposed to be shrouded in shadows). He wasn't expecting the police to see him or have Phoenix make the connection between him as de Killer and him as John Doe. What does this mean? Simply that Matt had wanted his face to be shown in public—and even though De Killer had his face shown to the police and others, the fact that his client was willing to break their trust by attempting to make sure he could black mail De Killer by having his face on tape is why De Killer feels like the trust is broken.

As to why De Killer believed Phoenix? Well, he did make a compelling argument. And like Superinfreak pointed out, Matt wouldn't have spoken lest he be confessing. Let's also remember that De Killer realized at this point that even if Matt was let off the hook, De Killer would still be after him. So let's say, in a different scenario, De Killer actually didn't believe Phoenix and just acted like he did. So Adrian would be found guilty. Then De Killer could get the truth from Matt. And he can make up his own conclusions. De Killer isn't a dumb guy.

I'm not sure if this contributed anything, but I'm always up for a lively discussion :edgy:

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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:21 pm

Bad Player

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Caelestis wrote:

So let's say, in a different scenario, De Killer actually didn't believe Phoenix and just acted like he did. So Adrian would be found guilty. Then De Killer could get the truth from Matt. And he can make up his own conclusions. De Killer isn't a dumb guy.

That's exactly what I was thinking should have happened to make the ending more sense :sadshoe:

Don't just believe the lawyer whose trying to worm out of your grasp, get Engarde off the hook, talk with him, see what really happened, and kill him if the lawyer was right.

(Off-topic: Caelestis, when are you going to update Flawless Achievement? :larry:

)

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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:32 am

Caelestis

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Bad Player wrote:

(Off-topic: Caelestis, when are you going to update Flawless Achievement? :larry:

)

Uh... uh... :payne:

s-soon? Um, I'll try Monday :edgy:

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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:57 am

Elenja

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Hm, we´re still talking about the blackmailing thing, are we?
Ok, so Shelly admitted that he was the Killer. So, why would the video be so important?! It shows what he admitted already.
Well, that could be a contradiction...
BUT! Maybe it was important, because nobody has seen him so far! If they saw him on the video, anybody knew what Shelly de Killer looked like! That would make it hard for Shelly to do any normal work and stuff.
Well but that´s only a speculation.
Perhaps that´s really a Contradiction?! Who knows!

Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:49 am

dapz

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Maybe Matt didn't think that De Killer would admit to killing him because he thought that if he did then De Killer would be found guilty despite the fact Matt had hired him.

Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:20 pm

GigaHand

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Magnus Orion wrote:

Bad Player wrote:

He was the bellboy. They found his uniform.

I already adressed that:

Magnus Orion wrote:

There was no proof, till the raid anyway, that those two were actually De Killer.

It was at that time that they had both the tape and the uniform. Without the tape, it is actually possible to argue that a different bellboy was De Killer. Once again, the tape is an excuse for blackmail.

Sorry, but I don't have the OBJECTION image. Anyway, it's already known that the bellboy was de Killer because of Powers' testimony. The bellboy was wearing black leather gloves, which were found with the suit, which was found with the tape de Killer admitted to being told to protect. Therefore, it's safe to assume that the bellboy was de Killer.

Quote:

Bad Player wrote:

He didn't wear a mask when dealing with Maya in Engarde's mansion. Why would he wear a mask in other times if he didn't then?

This is a very good point. However, we must remember what happens if Engarde gets NOT GUILTY in the game.
Miracle never happen (All your base, LOL)
Phoenix, despite his efforts, never sees Maya again.
If I were De Killer, Maya is an important bargaining tool. The reason she is kept alive is so that Phoenix continues to do what you want. However, once you get what you want, Maya becomes a threat. She knows your Identity.

We must keep in mind that Maya was only kept in a dark room, and even when she escaped, it was into another dark room. When de Killer fled with her, it's possible that he blindfolded her.

I have presented evidence that both helps and hinders this debate...

Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:29 pm

GigaHand

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GigaHand wrote:

Magnus Orion wrote:

Bad Player wrote:

He was the bellboy. They found his uniform.

I already adressed that:

Magnus Orion wrote:

There was no proof, till the raid anyway, that those two were actually De Killer.

It was at that time that they had both the tape and the uniform. Without the tape, it is actually possible to argue that a different bellboy was De Killer. Once again, the tape is an excuse for blackmail.

Sorry, but I don't have the OBJECTION image. Anyway, it's already known that the bellboy was de Killer because of Powers' testimony. The bellboy was wearing black leather gloves, which were found with the suit, which was found with the tape de Killer admitted to being told to protect. Therefore, it's safe to assume that the bellboy was de Killer.

Sorry to double post, but let's remember his most distinctive feature: the stitches on his face. Why are they there? does he wear a mask? If so, does he have other masks? Do they have stitches? Why is this relevant to what I quoted? Do I even have any idea what I'm talking about?

Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:45 pm

oddy

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I dont think Dekiller was afraid of being blackmailed but I think he took the being taped thing as the Client not trusting him. And an assassin that put trust in first hand wouldn't tolerate being taped.

Edit: delete this message. Dubbelposted by accident.

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Last edited by oddy on Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:46 pm

oddy

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I dont think Dekiller was afraid of being blackmailed but I think he took the being taped thing as the Client not trusting him. And an assassin that put trust in first hand wouldn't tolerate being taped by his client.

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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:29 am

FerdieLance

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HYPOTHESIS:

On the tape, Shelly can be seen tripping over a teddy bear, knocking over a giant stuffed bear, and chasing Juan around for a few minutes before managing to garotte him. He then rearranges the scene to hide all of this, and make it look like Juan was strangled by a seasoned expert.

If the video got out, he'd be a laughing-stock among his assassin buddies.

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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Wed May 13, 2009 1:00 am

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To tell the truth... how do we know that the video actually shows the killing? Franziska says that there was no time to see it's contents. For all we know it could be a video of [insert mild nudity]
Or were the contents revealed? I can't remember.

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Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:59 pm

major_pw_fan

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powers, phoneix,maya didnt see de-killer because each time he was wearing a costume and the stiches may have been part of it i not sure

OBJECTION " i objection this is objectionable"

OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"

Re: GIANT 2-4 Contradiction? (spoilers)

Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:02 pm

major_pw_fan

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Also i think the whole tape issue , i know de killer admitted to killing juan , but in tape showed matt breaking the client assisian code. , the stitchs i think are also part of a mask maybe ?

OBJECTION " i objection this is objectionable"

OBJECTION " i object to the witnesses talkitiveness"