The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Shipping: A community I've never found myself particularly interested in. Throughout the game I was rooting for my favourite pairings, yes (Phoenix/Maya FTW), but when I came here I didn't think much of the shipping community at all. If anything, it was a fanboy craze.
I think the unfortunate truth is that Capcom will never make a relationship happen in the games. Believe it or not, developing a more-than-good-friends relationship over a period of a game - or even a trilogy - is hard. Very hard. For sure, you can begin with relationships happening. There are married couples within the games. But to begin with a couple barely knowing eachother and to develop that friendship is nigh-on impossible.
And the far more unfortunate truth, as much as I disagree with it, is that society will not agree with any man/man or woman/woman relationship.
We can say 'we've evolved beyond that' as much as we like, but just imagine what a kid's parents would be like if they bought kid the game and kid was awakened to the idea of two men being good friends - and that's without any 'suggestive' content at all. Those parents would attack Capcom, possibly in court, and win.
By no means am I saying 'so shut up about yaoi/yuri'. By NO means. I'm really sparking discussion here. I don't want this to turn into a gay pairing thread. I've nothing against gay characters, let alone gay people, so don't flame me for that.
So I suppose you can finally answer this question for me; How would the public react to a PW gay coupling?
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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brace yourself mate
I <3 kittens they are too damned sexy. 
I hate my real name so call me Raven or Poe.
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Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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I'd have to say the public would have mixed feelings. We got certain people like certain ones in the forum that are against the idea of gay couples being canon in a series like PW.
But me, personally? I wouldn't be phased by it in one bit. Whether it were a lesbian or a gay couple.
This is kinda why I am afraid of introducing my PW OC to anyone, since she was brought up/raised by one. D=
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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MoronSonOfBoron wrote:
that was priceless, instant winner
I <3 kittens they are too damned sexy.
I hate my real name so call me Raven or Poe.
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Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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(I have bad memory so I don't recognize those games/links.)
I might be reading this whole thing wrong, so I apoligize in advance...
Last edited by Morinozuka Takashi on Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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That said...is this really the right place for this thread? :/ It seems to belong more in a non-PW section than the Defendant's Lobby.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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It's almost assured that they won't have pairings in the PW games, heterosexual or homosexual. I mean, if they did have pairings, it's not unlikely that they would have homosexual relationships hinted or outright mentioned (Street Fighter and Resident Evil lololol), even if heterosexual relationships are a lot more likely (Larry and Kiyance/Jennifer/Amy/Mary Sue).
And don't the Phoenix Wright games have a 12 rating? I think that any 12 year old and above knows of homosexual relationships, even if it is just a knee-jerk insult to use in an argument. I don't think the children would be 'awakened' to the world of homosexuality, they would would just not really be used to it in an unbiased source (This could be me being biased, but the amount of times I hear "You gay" or "You fag" in an argument, or the amount of times you hear politicians/extreme Christians (Just in case I ruffle anyone's feathers, I mean no insult to Christians AT ALL, I am one myself, and I hope no-one will take offense) denounce the law to make gay marriage legal...Well, gay relationships seem to have gained a bad reputation.
Also, to quote Raelle, I don't think that the Phoenix Wright games focus too much on the sexual orientation so much as the pairing itself. I mean, look at all the Gumshoe/Edgeworth hints and all the Lana/Mia hints.
The Phoenix Wright games don't focus on romance that much either. The most they're mentioned seems to be as motives or facts in a case, except for I believe that one character in the first case and those two characters in another in PW3 (Not having played the game, I am unsure).
But...I really hope they do, at some point. And the amount of hints in some scenes makes things almost canon, anyway
~Zizzo
Last edited by Zizzo on Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SilverZephyr wrote:
I love how people go all "HOW WILL HETEROSEXUALS REACT TO HOMOSEXUAL PAIRINGS?" without considering the question of "How do homosexuals deal with the 85972085 heterosexual pairings that are all over the place in TV, games, books, and real life?" Because yes, believe it or not, many homosexuals ARE squicked by heterosexuality :/ But we live with it.
That's what I always wondered, too.
Not saying that I am one of those guys, but just saying that I am patient enough to accept the het and het canon in every fandom I go, so why can't yaoi or yuri be just as acceptable?
That answer's beyond my knowing, so no answers for that. ._.
MoronSonOfBoron wrote:
My point is that with cultural trends as they are now, as a major publisher (and financier of smaller divisions) Capcom will eventually get a "gay game" under its label. To be honest I'm surprised the Japanese haven't been pushing the envelope more on this issue.
^
.....But they don't. and I still think they won't even in the future. We'll see. ._.
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I <3 kittens they are too damned sexy.
I hate my real name so call me Raven or Poe.
I hate my real name so call me Raven or Poe.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Android 21 3/7 wrote:
Personally, I don't see how it would change all that much. If they come out with a game that has a canon yaoi/yuri pairing in it, I think fans will regard it the same way they regard any pairing. Some will embrace it and squee over it a lot and some will hack it in two and pair them up with other people to satisfy their own fantasies. I do it all the time.
I totally agree. I mean, the hordes of yaoi fangirls you can find on Fanfiction.Net used to be heterosexual fans, right? I mean, a normal person confronted with gay content probably won't automatically take it to the courts (no pun intended <3) or start an 'anti-game [X]' petition.
I hope.
~Zizzo
Last edited by Zizzo on Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thirded. *nods in agreement*
*hums 'Wouldn't it be nice' by Beach boys*
Fans can always dream, eh?
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
?!
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Cheeseweasel wrote:
We can say 'we've evolved beyond that' as much as we like, but just imagine what a kid's parents would be like if they bought kid the game and kid was awakened to the idea of two men being good friends - and that's without any 'suggestive' content at all. Those parents would attack Capcom, possibly in court, and win.
...You can't SUE a company for producing a series that has gay characters. If you could, why hasn't it been done before? There's quite a few gay characters in western media.
It seems you're making a bigger deal out of this than it actually is.
Holy Hell wrote:
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Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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I was extremely disappointed. :(
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Guess_Who wrote:
I came in here hoping the OP would talk about how homosexuality is the root of all evil, how gays did 9/11, and how all the fags are going to hell.
I was extremely disappointed. :(
I was extremely disappointed. :(
You forgot homosexuals being the reason we have AIDS... On a slightly more serious note, has the carnage begun yet?
On a serious note: I must agree with SZ way up there--how would the homosexuals react to the near-infinite amount of heterosexual pairings?
Too lazy... hur hur.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Personally, I'm more disgusted by people who try to censor it or claim it's going to be the downfall of society than the actual subject matter itself. For crying out loud, keep your nose out of other people's business. If you don't want your kids watching such "disturbing" material, BE A PARENT and keep them from watching it! Just don't try to enforce your own views on everyone else- that's what I think will eventually lead to the downfall of society. Not the 2 guys kissing and getting a piece of paper that says they're legally married. The people that want to stifle that love, that want to make people conform to the "proper" way of thinking- THOSE are the people that will tear down society as we know it. 1984, anyone?
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Shinkinrui wrote:
I'm sure it's harder for homosexuals who are "squicked"(?) by heterosexual relationships, but hey, if it squicks you that much, I'm sure you'll find a way to avoid it.
...When spending five minutes walking down the street often yields views of heterosexuals making out in public, dry-humping in alleyways, posing on magazine and book covers as well as ads, etc.?
....No. There's no way to avoid it.
That said...It's not something worth getting upset about, for either orientation. It's a fact of nature that there are people of both sexual orientation and it's a fact of nature that they will be written about in books and talked about in magazines. Avoid whatever you don't like when possible, but other than that, nobody really should have any right to complain. Especially something like the subject matter of a video game is certainly nothing to get upset over.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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There are gay games in Japan. Or at least, lots of yaoi games. There are games with hinted homosexual pairings, some with obvious ones. Didn't Enchanted Arms just come out? Can't you get your character into a gay relationship in Bully? (didn't actually play either, just going on what I hear). And Capcom itself just released God Hand, which is FULL of all manner of gay innuendo.
Now granted, God Hand is 100% camp and not a very flattering portrayal of just about anything. But I think the question of "Omg what will parents do if their kids see gay stuff!?" has already been answered--unless the game is super popular and completely mainstream, no one notices or cares. And that doesn't apply to PW.
It's really more a question of "what is the average PW fan likely to be into?" This fandom has a healthy collection of yaoi fans, but they're still the minority. The last poll conducted here showed a fandom that was roughly 60% male. And let's be honest, even if a lot of the male fans here didn't have a problem with yaoi, I don't think they'd care to see any main-character romance take center stage in the game's plot, let alone between two leading males or anything like that.
Hell, even I don't want to see that. Let Phoenix and Odoroki stay single. The games are so trial based, they really limit what you can do in the romance department. Let fandom do what they want with that area--we're talking about a mystery game, not a dating sim.
EDIT: btw, first remark not meant for the posters directly above me, I mean other people in the thread
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as homosexuality is becoming more and more acceptable, the shift towards homosexuals as canon in games will gradually shift as well
years ago it ran rampant in fandom but in light of recent trends its unavoidable
I <3 kittens they are too damned sexy.
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Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Back on topic, I hate yaoi/yuri pairings. Enough said.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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As for mainstream games dealing with homosexuality, how about Guilty Gear, for a start? Venom's homosexuality is canon.
Also interesting reading.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Cheeseweasel wrote:
(I'm not sure if I got the title right here. Forgive me if I did, I'm not sure whether girl/girl fan-fic is called yuri- so, just for the record, I am discussing fan-fiction and shipping - NOT hentai - in this topic. I am also unsure as to whether this is in the correct forum, but alas, here goes.)
Shipping: A community I've never found myself particularly interested in. Throughout the game I was rooting for my favourite pairings, yes (Phoenix/Maya FTW), but when I came here I didn't think much of the shipping community at all. If anything, it was a fanboy craze.
I think the unfortunate truth is that Capcom will never make a relationship happen in the games. Believe it or not, developing a more-than-good-friends relationship over a period of a game - or even a trilogy - is hard. Very hard. For sure, you can begin with relationships happening. There are married couples within the games. But to begin with a couple barely knowing eachother and to develop that friendship is nigh-on impossible.
And the far more unfortunate truth, as much as I disagree with it, is that society will not agree with any man/man or woman/woman relationship.
We can say 'we've evolved beyond that' as much as we like, but just imagine what a kid's parents would be like if they bought kid the game and kid was awakened to the idea of two men being good friends - and that's without any 'suggestive' content at all. Those parents would attack Capcom, possibly in court, and win.
By no means am I saying 'so shut up about yaoi/yuri'. By NO means. I'm really sparking discussion here. I don't want this to turn into a gay pairing thread. I've nothing against gay characters, let alone gay people, so don't flame me for that.
So I suppose you can finally answer this question for me; How would the public react to a PW gay coupling?
Shipping: A community I've never found myself particularly interested in. Throughout the game I was rooting for my favourite pairings, yes (Phoenix/Maya FTW), but when I came here I didn't think much of the shipping community at all. If anything, it was a fanboy craze.
I think the unfortunate truth is that Capcom will never make a relationship happen in the games. Believe it or not, developing a more-than-good-friends relationship over a period of a game - or even a trilogy - is hard. Very hard. For sure, you can begin with relationships happening. There are married couples within the games. But to begin with a couple barely knowing eachother and to develop that friendship is nigh-on impossible.
And the far more unfortunate truth, as much as I disagree with it, is that society will not agree with any man/man or woman/woman relationship.
We can say 'we've evolved beyond that' as much as we like, but just imagine what a kid's parents would be like if they bought kid the game and kid was awakened to the idea of two men being good friends - and that's without any 'suggestive' content at all. Those parents would attack Capcom, possibly in court, and win.
By no means am I saying 'so shut up about yaoi/yuri'. By NO means. I'm really sparking discussion here. I don't want this to turn into a gay pairing thread. I've nothing against gay characters, let alone gay people, so don't flame me for that.
So I suppose you can finally answer this question for me; How would the public react to a PW gay coupling?
The power of a fanbase is a terrifying thing. Hope you're ready to face those consequences.
Personally though I think there are chances for romance. Problem is that it's usually left open-ended so that way everyone wins. A person has to be really gutsy to make canon pairings and stick to them. That's probably why we won't see anything like Phoenix x Maya
but really yaoi/yuri is more of a fan thing if anything. I doubt the creators wanted Phoenix and Edgeworth to have a yaoi relationship. They're friends, rivals, and sometimes partners, but that of course targets them for many a yaoi adventure.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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There isn't much chance Capcom will do any relationships AT ALL, except if they are needed in the storyline (Yuusakus, Minami/Takita, even Polly (the girl, not the parrot)/Yanni.. :/) - murder cases, although they CAN revolve around love, often don't. Ergo, you don't see much in Phoenix Wright - the fanbase can come up with stories, pairings, etcetera, and point out the "huge clues" for those pairings, but will never be official. But eh, isn't that the whole point of a fanbase? >_>
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(And also, Yay Venom!)
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Croik wrote:
That's not entirely true--Gumshoe/Maggey is very strongly hinted in canon, and it doesn't necessarily fit into either cases where they're featured. There's a little room for romance. Just...not as much as you'd find in an RPG or something.
(And also, Yay Venom!)
(And also, Yay Venom!)
Alright, plot and punchline ;) I was just saying that while it's really nice to dig into PW-characters' personal lives, it's not what the game is about. We, for example, never get to know a few of Angel's boyfriends, or Edgeworth's mother. While these are interesting discussion points, they are something for the fandom to take care of, and Capcom doesn't have to.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Quote:
I doubt the creators wanted Phoenix and Edgeworth to have a yaoi relationship. They're friends, rivals, and sometimes partners, but that of course targets them for many a yaoi adventure.
Have you seen the article about the interview with Shu Takumi? He outright says that Naruhodo thinks that Mitsurugi's a "pretty cute guy". That seems evidence enough to me that the creators aren't completely adverse or unaware of the games' homosexual/homosexual supportive fanbase.
~Zizzo
P.S On a disturing note, the fouth search result down I get on Google for 'Mitsurugi Gyakuten Gay Gamer' seems to be 'Gay Nazis'
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Zizzo wrote:
It's almost assured that they won't have pairings in the PW games, heterosexual or homosexual. I mean, if they did have pairings, it's not unlikely that they would have homosexual relationships hinted or outright mentioned (Street Fighter and Resident Evil lololol), even if heterosexual relationships are a lot more likely (Larry and Kiyance/Jennifer/Amy/Mary Sue).~Zizzo
That's interesting...
I can see The King of Fighters doing this but Street Fighter? Not a chance.
Last edited by RevFirst on Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Zizzo wrote:
Have you seen the article about the interview with Shu Takumi? He outright says that Naruhodo thinks that Mitsurugi's a "pretty cute guy". That seems evidence enough to me that the creators aren't completely adverse or unaware of the games' homosexual/homosexual supportive fanbase.
~Zizzo
P.S On a disturing note, the fouth search result down I get on Google for 'Mitsurugi Gyakuten Gay Gamer' seems to be 'Gay Nazis'
Hnm. Now THAT I never saw before...
*bookmarks site and said link* How interesting~.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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RevFirst wrote:
Zizzo wrote:
It's almost assured that they won't have pairings in the PW games, heterosexual or homosexual. I mean, if they did have pairings, it's not unlikely that they would have homosexual relationships hinted or outright mentioned (Street Fighter and Resident Evil lololol), even if heterosexual relationships are a lot more likely (Larry and Kiyance/Jennifer/Amy/Mary Sue).~Zizzo
That's interesting...
I can see The King of Fighters doing this but Street Fighter? Not a chance.
Zangief.
Eagle.
Both of them are confirmed gay. Well, Eagle anyway, Zangief's just been really, REALLY strongly hinted.
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Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
Zangief.
Eagle.
Both of them are confirmed gay. Well, Eagle anyway, Zangief's just been really, REALLY strongly hinted.
Eagle.
Both of them are confirmed gay. Well, Eagle anyway, Zangief's just been really, REALLY strongly hinted.
Eagle? I'd admit that I know little of him (being minor and all) so I'll need to check his profile.
Zangief? I'd say that something's going on with him and R. Mika if anything.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
That's probably why we won't see anything like Phoenix x Maya
but really yaoi/yuri is more of a fan thing if anything.
but really yaoi/yuri is more of a fan thing if anything.
Isn't Phoenix/Maya a "fan thing" too?
Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
I doubt the creators wanted Phoenix and Edgeworth to have a yaoi relationship. They're friends, rivals, and sometimes partners, but that of course targets them for many a yaoi adventure.
Do I think the creators want P/E in a romantic relationship, and that's what drives their friendship in the games? Not on your life. Do I think the creators are aware a contingent of fans wants P/E in a romantic relationship, and don't mind throwing them a few bones to appease them? Absolutely.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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RevFirst wrote:
CantFaketheFunk wrote:
Zangief.
Eagle.
Both of them are confirmed gay. Well, Eagle anyway, Zangief's just been really, REALLY strongly hinted.
Eagle.
Both of them are confirmed gay. Well, Eagle anyway, Zangief's just been really, REALLY strongly hinted.
Eagle? I'd admit that I know little of him (being minor and all) so I'll need to check his profile.
Zangief? I'd say that something's going on with him and R. Mika if anything.
No, I mean, it's canon. I'm 95% sure Zangief is canonically gay (and at the very least "hates attractive women"). and I am 100% sure Eagle is... I mean for crying out loud, he's a homage to Freddie Mercury.
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Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
No, I mean, it's canon. I'm 95% sure Zangief is canonically gay (and at the very least "hates attractive women"). and I am 100% sure Eagle is... I mean for crying out loud, he's a homage to Freddie Mercury.
In that case... *walks away trying hard not to laugh*
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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~Zizzo
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LOL @ VENOM
Plus, a funny little blunder on Final Fantasy VI, most notably the Advance version. When resting on an inn, each character takes a different bed. However, you can save money by ubicating beds where you can rest without spending cash. However, as it's only one bed, no apparent character separation will be done, and it will be implied that they're all sleeping in the same bed.
Where am I getting at? Well, in a certain part of the plot, you're left with 2 male characters only: Sabin and Cyan. (Needless to say, 2 muscular macho men. XD) In the town of Mobliz, town that you HAVE TO VISIT, you can sleep inside the Relic Shop, as there's a bed you can get in and sleep in for free.
There you go. 2 male characters sleeping together. HAHA!
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
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Or there's Shadow Hearts 2's Man Festival sidequest. My poor, poor virgin eyes.
~Zizzo
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Zizzo wrote:
We don't even hear about Phoenix's family at all, and he's the main character.
Have you seen the article about the interview with Shu Takumi? He outright says that Naruhodo thinks that Mitsurugi's a "pretty cute guy". That seems evidence enough to me that the creators aren't completely adverse or unaware of the games' homosexual/homosexual supportive fanbase.
~Zizzo
P.S On a disturing note, the fouth search result down I get on Google for 'Mitsurugi Gyakuten Gay Gamer' seems to be 'Gay Nazis'
Quote:
I doubt the creators wanted Phoenix and Edgeworth to have a yaoi relationship. They're friends, rivals, and sometimes partners, but that of course targets them for many a yaoi adventure.
Have you seen the article about the interview with Shu Takumi? He outright says that Naruhodo thinks that Mitsurugi's a "pretty cute guy". That seems evidence enough to me that the creators aren't completely adverse or unaware of the games' homosexual/homosexual supportive fanbase.
~Zizzo
P.S On a disturing note, the fouth search result down I get on Google for 'Mitsurugi Gyakuten Gay Gamer' seems to be 'Gay Nazis'
But if I remember right girls call each other cute and stuff all the time and I'm probably sure 99% of the time those girls are straight so I don't see how Phoenix thinking Edgeworth is cute is... well yaoiish.
musouka wrote:
Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
That's probably why we won't see anything like Phoenix x Maya
but really yaoi/yuri is more of a fan thing if anything.
but really yaoi/yuri is more of a fan thing if anything.
Isn't Phoenix/Maya a "fan thing" too?
Yeah. But in the grand scheme of things considering in any story the main male and main female get together Phoenix x Maya would likely happen before Phoenix x Miles, but as I said usually stories tend to end up open-ended to not disappoint anyone.
Last edited by Tomoshibi Amatsu on Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Sad Truth Behind Yaoi/Yuri
Science: It's cuter than ever
Gender: Female
Location: Michigan
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 999
Tomoshibi Amatsu wrote:
Zizzo wrote:
We don't even hear about Phoenix's family at all, and he's the main character.
Have you seen the article about the interview with Shu Takumi? He outright says that Naruhodo thinks that Mitsurugi's a "pretty cute guy". That seems evidence enough to me that the creators aren't completely adverse or unaware of the games' homosexual/homosexual supportive fanbase.
~Zizzo
P.S On a disturing note, the fouth search result down I get on Google for 'Mitsurugi Gyakuten Gay Gamer' seems to be 'Gay Nazis'
Quote:
I doubt the creators wanted Phoenix and Edgeworth to have a yaoi relationship. They're friends, rivals, and sometimes partners, but that of course targets them for many a yaoi adventure.
Have you seen the article about the interview with Shu Takumi? He outright says that Naruhodo thinks that Mitsurugi's a "pretty cute guy". That seems evidence enough to me that the creators aren't completely adverse or unaware of the games' homosexual/homosexual supportive fanbase.
~Zizzo
P.S On a disturing note, the fouth search result down I get on Google for 'Mitsurugi Gyakuten Gay Gamer' seems to be 'Gay Nazis'
But if I remember right girls call each other cute and stuff all the time and I'm probably sure 99% of the time those girls are straight so I don't see how Phoenix thinking Edgeworth is cute is... well yaoiish.
The keyword here is "girls"
Men calling each other cute is slightly less...casual sounding 
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