While I was delivering leaflets, I was thinking of a plot for the (first two) cases in GS5 and I came up with this.

It may sound lame and overused, but in case 1, Klavier gets arrested for the killing of his brother Kristoph while he was awaiting the death penalty. He's the main suspect and Apollo will offer to defend him. During the case, the prosecution (Payne or maybe another prosecutor, like Edgeworth returning to "test" Phoenix's "apprentice"?) establishes a motive, that has do to with the happenings in case 4 and deep resentment towards his brother (vague examples are given by the prosecution). However, Apollo manages to create an alibi for Klavier. Klavier gets off the hook and the case remains unsolved.

In case 2, we get a case where a butler (or someone else?) kills a young man for whom he works. The prosecutor is Klavier and things go pretty smoothly for him on the first day. However, when investigating, Apollo finds out that the prosecution's motive, namely that the butler was threatening the victim for money and that the young man still wouldn't give him, couldn't be true. He finds some of the butler's paychecks (he actually gets paid very well!) in the room of the younger brother, carefully locked into a safe and he also finds a printed internet tutorial on how to handle a gun in that safe. Apollo knows who to suspect now and these pieces of evidence will be used as ammunition in the trial.

(Of course, the real plot will be much deeper, with more characters, witnesses and maybe a deeper motive. Maybe you guys have some nice ideas for this as well?)

During the trial, Klavier claims that nothing has changed and that the prosecution's case still stands. A new witness is called, the younger brother is asked to testify about the "mad butler" and why he clearly was capable of committing a murder like this. However, Apollo presents contradicting evidence and is cornering the younger brother. Klavier seems to be having a hard time once he notices that the younger brother is being suspected of murder. The younger brother counters these statements by, once again, trying to pin the murder on the butler and saying that he doesn't even know how to handle a gun, but once Apollo presents the internet tutorial evidence, the younger brother breaks down. He tells that the court that he absolutely hated his brother, that he was always the one that got the praise, that he was always the one that get better grades and that he has been blackmailed and used by him for years during high school. The older brother drove the younger brother into madness. During this revelation, Klavier starts acting very weird. He appears stressed and all pale. After the verdict is delivered and the judge wants to leave the court, Klavier objects. The guilty love music starts playing epically and Klavier will confess everything. He DID kill Kristoph, because he wanted to finish "that bastard" off himself. The two brothers used to be happy and always played together, but when Klavier accidentally gave Kristoph a huge scar on his hand and shattered his price in the playground, Kristoph got evil. Kristoph got hold of an amazingly embarrassing and painful secret (could anyone think of one) of Klavier and he used that to blackmail and eventually control him completely. Once Kristoph left the house to go to law school, Klavier already started thinking about killing him. However, the success he eventually got with his band turned his tidal wave of negative emotions into a calming sea and Klavier became the calm and cool prosecutor as he is today. He and Kristoph even had a "normal" relationship again, being able to talk to him normally instead of his ass being blackmailed to hell. After the happenings in case 4-4, Kristoph keeps calling Klavier from his solitary cell, remembering him of the past, telling him that he still is that no good fool as he used to be and all other kinds of unpleasant things. These bully calls made him so terribly mad and revived the lingering desire to kill him off, which he did. After he committed the murder, he was scared and shaking in his boots. Out of despair he created an alibi for himself by tampering with the crime scene. His deed was done.

That's basically my idea, it still has many holes and if you guys want to, I'd be very happy if you tried to fill them up together with me. I hope you liked my idea, it may not be fully thought true, but I found it to be a nice way to give the Gavins some more depth and finish their arc of for good. Case 3 and 4 will feature different prosecutors of course.

Hope you liked it,

Thom

PS: My English may be a bit off sometimes, since I'm no native speaker. I hope that didn't bother you!

Last edited by Thommish on Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I liked your idea, really, but this topic probably belongs to the Wonder Bar, the section decicaced to all the GS5 discussions.

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Oh! Thank you, I must have missed that. I hope a moderator can switch it to that board then ^_^.

Klavier ;_;

Hum, not bad! I like the idea of defending someone who finally turn out to be guilty, but I would prefer this guy to be Polly rather than Klavier...*shot*

Just kidding. It's a good thinking, have you ever thought about writing a fan fiction based on it?

(PS:I believe Kristoph's scar on his hand was left by his dog?)

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Thanks for the compliment, I'd gladly expand it, but I'm not really a star at making awesome turnabouts like Capcom's writers, so I'll just have to think that through very carefully. I also hope that some creative minds are willing to help me, creativity knows no boundaries, so the more ideas, the better. A script with lines would be fun to make too, I'll definitely consider that once I've got some more spare time on my hands.

And I don't know about Kristoph's scar, I always thought that dog bite was a mere rumour that led to a bunch of funny comics .

, obviously.

Hmmm... possibly Redd White, Damon Gant, Morgan Fey, Dahlia, Manfred Von Karma, or any combination thereof.
I'm leaning towards Redd White. He has the resources, knowhow, and the drive to really stir things up. Knowing him, he could have swindled his way out of prison and is up to his old tricks. When you think of it, he's had a huge impact on the Fey storyline and then was defeated and never heard from again.

"Final boss of all the darkness"
Are we still talking about Gyakuten Saiban ? It suddenly sounds like some random role playing game.

Anyway, I sure hope that it is not Redd White, because, seriously, I hate his sprites, and 9 years sure aren't gonna make him any better imo.

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Try as they might, Capcom will never be able to make a better villian than ...

I mean, if all AA villians fought each othr, would win. Hes not all that evil, per se, just powerful... very powerful...

Too bad he wont be the final boss of darkness... Nay, that is, of course

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For some reason, I want to see Klavier basically go BACKWARDS with character development.

For example, Edgeworth, Fran, etc, they go from revenge, to wanting to find the truth with Phoenix.

Klavier, having been utterly betrayed by everyone he knows (pretty much... ), goes from wanting to find the truth, to unhappy and just wants to punish people.

I think he'd probably get dismissed after the first case, though, to make way for the second game's main prosecutor.

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Kind of like a person falling off from being on top of the world? That's an interesting idea, and he was certainly set up for it in GS4.

The FInal Darkness thing was from an 'interview' with Mr. Takumi, so the people said. It said that GS5 will be the last Apollo game and that there'd be a giant boss that links up everything.

It was a hoax and a load of crap. It was just random speculation that someone made up and people believed it because it was what they wanted to believe. There was no trace of it anywhere on the interenet, and there were no sources. So yeah, no more talk about it please, because there won't be any 'Final Darkness'. The fact some of you here believed it is a bit dissapointing.

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I haven't read any of the posts here, so I'm not sure if this idea has already been brought up, but...

I'm gonna take the "ultimate evil" thing and run with it, no matter how fake that interview is.

My thoughts...have the first four cases (as in THERE WILL BE 5 CASES IN THIS GAME) really bring Apollo into his own. Phoenix kinda disappears suddenly, without explanation other than "he's busy" or something like that. So it's Apollo and Trucy doing their variation of the whole Phoenix/Maya thing of old. Keep Klavier in there, and maybe make him a bit more shady and evil (maybe more bitter than evil?) as the cases progress.

Then, on the last case, give an option to play as either the defense (Apollo) or the prosecution (Klavier). (The prosecution would likely play completely different BTW.) If you choose to play as Apollo, you run into Phoenix again, back in a black suit and with an attorney's badge. If you choose Klavier, you run into Edgey and/or Franziska. Phoenix ends up being the bad guy and tries to persuade Apollo into getting an acquittal for whoever...Edgey/Fran try to help Klavier, see what Phoenix is up to, and try to stop him. Playing as the defense, Apollo is kinda in the same situation as Phoenix was in 2-4.

I know it's half-baked and farfetched, but it sounded good in my head.

Wouldn't that mean we'd end up with nearly every case having a different prosecutor? I mean, Payne's always in the first case, and they always have a 'special guest' prosecutor for the 4th case (Young in T&T and regular in JFA count toward 'special guest' status!).

So what you propose would look something like this:

1st Case :
2nd Case:
3rd Case: second main prosecutor
4th Case: 'guest' prosecutor
5th Case second main prosecutor

In short, there would be too many different prosecutors.



That'd be so funny (although I still think it should be ).

As an aside, Payne should loose his newly aquired hair in this game and the 'guest' prosecutor should be a bit like Manfred in AA.

What would be kind of cool would be the trial starts as normal. You are Apollo but prove your client's innocence at the first run. The only problem is that the defendant was found not guilty but the real suspect was not found. In fact a new potential suspect was found during the court's proceedings but there was not enough evidence to convict.
You'd then take the role of Klavier. Having to work with Ema as your sidekick (like what Trucy is to APollo and Maya is to Phoenix), investigate a new suspect in order to obtain the warrant. Now you eventually get it but you aren't to go up against Apollo like you'd hoped. Instead you go up against someone Klavier is familiar with: Kristoph's mentor who will be, no doubt, rotten to the core. You'd find out he masterminded everything from getting Phoenix disbarred up until now.
The funny thing about going to the prosecution's point of view would be the complete opposite contrasts. You now have to find faults in cross examinations, and believe the defendant is guilty no matter what. A sweet touch would be how different your sidekick is. Normally you'd have a partner that is unconditionally warm to you, but now you have Ema who finds you loathsome and only works with you because she gets paid to do it.

No Kristoph mentor... Please.

Anyone else think that Thalassa will die at some point throughout the AJ series? I mean, Apollo and Trucy's mother...doesn't get much more poignant than that.

And call me a fanboy if you must, but dammit I want to see Edgey! Even just as a cameo, I would be satisfied. Ditto Maya and Pearls. (Except Maya's figure is now more like Mia's, if you get my drift. Let's just say that Victor Kudo would be quite pleased. And we would get some priceless reactions from Nick!)

Maya was nineteen in T&T, so why would her "figure," as you put it, change? She may have acted like a child, but she was done growing physically by that point.

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My idea is either that the prosecutor in 5-4 (or 5-5) is Klavier Gavin or someone who's a blast from the past.

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Kristoph definitely has a partner. When you ask Drew (7 years ago) about Vera's clients, he mentions a "They"
"Their faces were covered and they didn't want to see me."

Now he could be talking about Vera and Kristoph... but it just seemed a bit odd that she would cover or face or tell her father to go away.

Another thing that keeps coming up is that GS5 is going to be the last game in the series (or at least in Apollo's series). Once again, that was from the fake interview at the beginning of this topic. At this point we know nothing, I repeat: NOTHING about this game or the direction the series is going aside from the fact that GS5 is being made. Anything else is just a rumor.

Her "figure" would change purely because I want to see Phoenix's eyes bug out. Imagine a bustier Maya walking into the Wright Talent Agency and hilarity ensuing (from both Maya and Nick, really).

I want a gaming witness. I want to know if vidoe games have truly died in the Ace Atorney world in the year 2021.

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Okay, I don't know if this has been mentioned before, not gonna read through the whole thread, blah blah blah... you know the drill.

Anyway.

What these games need is... toy box mode. Something outside of game continuity (similar to the Toy Room in Wario Ware: Touched) where you can play with stuff like the fingerprinting powder and the mixing board. Stuff you only get to do once or twice in game. Because we all know that stuff is just plain fun.

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^ Interesting idea.

Okay, I'm not going to build mycase on a false rumor, but I do want to know what happened to the Feys and our old, lovable characters. I really like Apollo, but I wanted them to tie up some loose ends from the previous trilogy. So my suggesion is that:

1. The Feys SHOULD make at least a cameo apperance, along with Edgey, Franzy, and Gumshoe.

2. After that little cameo, the game should be Apollo only with Trucy being Maya 3.0 (In a good way.)

3. Finally, I would like to see a more epic Steel Samurai case, too make up for GS3 and GS4's lack of them.

4. Wocky needs to make a reapperance, I mean, come on. He is possibly the funniest defendant to date thus far.

5. If Klavier is going to prosecute again, then give him lyrics to his songs. (I was a little disappointed with The Guitar's Seenade.)

6. My final point is that, We nee more character development with Apollo, Klavier, Vera, maybe Trucy, and possibly they could go into the Gavin's dark past.

But that's just me.

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I think they should have 4 cases focusing on Apollo and his plot [with a climactic one on case 4.] And then a fanservice one for 5-5 which is all about Phoenix-Maya-Edgeworth. You can play as Phoenix, or even Maya [that's an idea, Maya conducting the investigation phase]. Apollo doesn't lose the spotlight, and we still get satisfaction in seeing the old characters.

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^ That actually would be pretty cool.

But it might be better if it was the 3rd or 4th case, like the Mia flashback cases in GS3, rather than the 5th one. Because the last case is the big epic finale thing and all. But that would be fun.

Edit: Or did you mean like a sort of bonus case, kinda like Rise From the Ashes? Because yeah, that would probably work.

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I'm betting Brushel's gonna be this arc's Lotta.

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I hope Apollo is the killer in one of the cases. Something like this maybe:

5-1: The beginning stuff, teaches people how to play, blah blah, and tells a little about Apollo's past.
5-2: Tells about The old characters, yada, yada. But you start to notice change in Apollo's personality in the beginning of the case, and then toward the end, Apollo seems a bit cruel.
And stuff heats up in 5-3:
Apollo is the killer, and he kill Trucy 'cause she bitch-slapped him the other day. Then Apollo uses an anvil of some sort and kills Trucy. He is his own defense attorney, and nobody believes he did it, but he keeps say he did, using reverse psychology. But in the end, Apollo is convicted and goes to jail.

5-4: Apollo breaks out of jail and kills Maya, whom he meets in the second case. He goes back to jail again.

5-5: Pearl channels Maya, who gets revenge on Apollo(because Apollo bitch-slapped her) by using Pearl's body to kill him. But before that, Apollo kills Kyouya to get revenge prosecuting him. And lots more. Something like this:

beginning of 5-5:
Apollo gets revenge on Kyouya, and kills him.
Pearl channels Maya and then who kills Apollo(in revenge).
Then Kristoph kills Pearl because Pearl channeled Maya who killed Apollo, because Kristoph wanted to kill Apollo(in revenge).

Phoenix is the defense, and Lana somehow is the prosecutor. And Phoenix figures out the truth, and then everything seems to be settled but then for some reason Morgan channels Apollo, who drops an anvil on Phoenix and kills him for finding out the truth. And Apollo being channeled by Morgan, does not want to leave Morgan's body so he stays for a while, and figures out that he is somehow connected to the Feys and can channel people too. So then he channels Pearl who kills Kristoph with a machine gun for killing her. Pearl's spirit leaves, then apollo's spirit, and then Morgan dies of spirit-channeling-poisoning. The End.

But in GS6, there's some new idea. And I have yet to think of an idea for that one.

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What I really want to know is...



I want to see how Apollo deals with someone is is actually guilty of the crime they're being accused of. And who will be the new prosecutor. (if there is one) The new prosecutor should be someone who is bent on tearing Apollo to little itsy bitsy shreds and grinding him under their shoe. Apollo would have to really rely on himself and smarten up. Klavier was a refreshing change, as he actually cared on getting the truth.

WTF?!

Personally, I wouldn't like to play as a killer. And I can't imagine Apollo being the type of person who'd kill someone (but then I remember thinking that about Dahlia, so...).

Oh and in JFA, Morgan tells Phoenix that she can't channel people's spirits (and your idea for 5-5 is WAY too violent for an AA game, not to mention it's needlessly complex [sort of 2-4 on acid or something]). Not to mention that Morgan's (most likely) still in jail for her part in 's murder.

5-1 looks OK, I just don't like the rest of what you propose.

Yes, sort of like that. Have 4 coherent Apollo-centric cases with a big conclusion on 5-4, sort of like 1-4. Then an additional case about Phoenix etc. which is sort of a 'bonus' but long and detailed like 1-5 was.

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Hey! 5 cases are too few... since this is the last PW series, so Capcom should give us 2 to 3 more bonus cases. I heard that they're gonna link the characters, like maybe Klavier's mentor is Franzika[just an example, I won't think that. You see Klavier don't use whip... They don't seem related.]

This is an unfounded rumor that has no basis. We know nothing of the sort at the moment.

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I think Apollo should get his own screw-up lines. I mean



Maybe something like:

: Objection! That statement and this piece of evidence do not match up.

: How exactly?

: Er...I'm not sure...

: (Shakes head) I'm afraid the only things here not matching up are the synapses in your brain, Mr. Justice! *Penalty*

I think it might be interesting to have a prosecutor who continually makes ominous warnings that Apollo's style of defence is the kind that eventually leads to some kind of breakdown, and cites as examples of this

(Haven't read most of the read blah blah blah....)

How about a case set around a murder in a prison with the catch being that a decisive witness is one of the inmates? And this inmate is someone Phoenix found guilty in one of the previous games, not only that Apollo needs the inmates testimony as its very solid and favourable for his case. Depending on who it is you could involve people like Maya, Edgey, Gumshoe and Fran somehow so people can get some closure on them. Of course because the guy (or even girl) is testifying in court they may have negotiated an early release or a less harsh sentence. If its someone like Gant or Engarde (who would be able to manipulate a situation like that) it could lead to a confrontation between Apollo and Nick as I doubt he'd want to see either of them avoiding their sentences.

The reason I suggest this is because it could actually be an example of a bit of 'freedom' in how you play the AA/GS games. Like you could actually choose if you want to pursue the previous-character-inmate testifying route or you could solve the case another way. Obviously there would be other witnesses, but these would be the usual liars/mistaken bystanders that you have to prove wrong. I'm sort of wondering how you could make a truthful witness who is helpful to you challenging (if at all).

Call it Turnabout Prison or something.

How about. Optional evidence. Evidence that is hard to find but if you find it it'll help shorten part of the case by instead of pointing out 4 points/ presenting 4 evidence, you can use the optional evidence to be a shortcut. The optional evidence does not have to be found. They just have to put an alternate text for that small part.

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I think Apollo does get at least one, I'm not sure, but it went something like this:

Apollo: This piece of evidence will flip the case over!
Klavier: Thank you for presenting clear and plain evidence, as asked.
Judge: It's clearly and plainly wrong! The only thing flipped here was you on your head as a child Mr. Justice. *penalty*

Some old characters coming back into GS5 is sure a huge and nice idea.

Except for a few problems:

What do you think people will look like 9 years older?! Probably...all wrinkly. (I'm exagerrating but yeah...look what happened to Phoenix!):P

Some of the old characters wuold look horrible after 9 years.

The Gs staff can do something about it though! :P

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